Re: You win!
GreenEyes, Sun Sept 01 2013, 02:36AM

I will use the Pussy PSG "as they call it" all day long.. I don't care who's bitching and whining. Its a choice we have right??? I can't shoot with either but find that one much easier to use.

Re: You win!
poohster, Sun Sept 01 2013, 01:16PM

The whiners about the PSG are always the one's dead from the PSG. :-)

Re: You win!
Sasquatch, Sun Sept 01 2013, 02:09PM

seems to me if they think it has some advantage... they should use it ;)

Re: You win!
DankRider, Sun Sept 01 2013, 06:06PM

As I'm sure this was a result of our server testing last night.

The server team had implemented an option to omit certain weapons and gear in the previous version of 4.1. Due to FS updates these options was amended thus removed. Last night the server team took the time and effort to give us the ability to remove certain weapons and gear as previously indicated.

This was for testing and DJ abilities and is not considered to be a permanent FSK405 server setting. Simply an option, so you PSG and goggle lovers can be rest assured they will be available unless omitted for a certain game.

Re: You win!
Reflux, Sun Sept 01 2013, 08:20PM

My solution to your one shot kills with the SR8 is a multi-shot PSG. Take away the PSG and the playing field is heavily tilted towards the SRAILGUN8.

So if you want railguns only, fine. All I hear is bitching when the all mighty SR8 finds competition, but without the PSG in play, there's no competition. I'm not going to be the fish in the barrel. Congrats on solving the "pee ess gay" problem.

Let me know when the fad is over.

wily duck

Firstly, I think the setting got left on on accident after we got done playing last night. Secondly, it ain't no fad, it's a setting.

http://www.urbanterror.info/forums/topic/29533-weapon-mask/page__view__findpost__p__346072



Lastly ... Untrue. The PSG-1 has pretty much the same hit damage as the SR8, except it is a five round semi-automatic with NO PENALTY. So, if you did miss your first 4 rounds, you get your fifth, and the weapon is nice enough to reset the crosshairs where you fired your previous shot, remaining scoped in. Because that fair. The PSG-1 doesn't always descope when you're hit ... THAT'S FAIR! The PSG-1 does not incur the same style movement penalty as the SR8, esp. under water. Even fairer yet.







If you can recall, the SR8 used to be a much better weapon, but people cried about how awesome it was, and they dumbed it down. Now any fool can grab NVG's + PSG-1 and snipe dat shit and the SR8 user is penalized, heavily. The PSG-1 can deliver five fast repeating rounds in the same time it takes the SR8 to shoot one and get the second reloaded.

To say, "I can't shoot that SR8," is to say, "I can't handle not having all those handicaps." There is NOTHING to counter that combo, especially after they nerf'd the SR8 and removed flash nades. Now it's just dumb.

Anyways, it's a server side setting to be applied on a per map basis, just like any other server setting.

-Me

Re: You win!
Underdog, Mon Sept 02 2013, 10:20AM

Hey Reflux, that's a handy screenshot of weapons/damage there. Could you link me to the full list? Ty.

Re: You win!
Explorateur, Mon Sept 02 2013, 11:59AM

Now any fool can grab NVG's + PSG-1 and snipe dat shit and the SR8 user is penalized, heavily. The PSG-1 can deliver five fast repeating rounds in the same time it takes the SR8 to shoot one and get the second reloaded.

Reflux

No need for personal attacks....

Re: You win!
Fokker, Mon Sept 02 2013, 02:56PM

yes XP you do resemble a fool !

-jk ;)

Re: You win!
Reflux, Mon Sept 02 2013, 11:02PM

Link to damage table.

http://www.snipersgaulois.com/help.urt.php

Re: You win!
Boogie Knight, Tue Sept 03 2013, 06:33AM

As it happened again last night, it was not "left on accidentally". My take is, that players will come to the server and find at the start of a game (or sometimes in the middle of a game) that their favorite weapon is not available. I have always felt that the weapons are there to give us a choice. Sometimes, depending on the map, you may want to select another weapon if you aren't having any luck with what you started with.
By incorporating the ability to disable certain weapons, you are giving the power to the dj to decide what they think is "fair" or "best". If a weapon isn't fair in your mind, then take it up with FS. You are only alienating players. Some will love it, some will hate it.
We could also debate as to what is the best color, the best car, the best band. Everyone has his/her own opinion. Why force it on others?
I'm not good on some maps with an SR8, although on Superman I sometimes use it or the PSG. So when I get on a map where autos are disabled, I'm sort of at a big disadvantage.
It also sucks when sometimes half way through a game, weapons are added or taken away with no warning. You don't even know what is available until you try other weapons., much to the delight of the dj.
Sort of an inside joke, I guess.

Re: You win!
LadyHellfire*, Tue Sept 03 2013, 04:17PM

There are nights when we have a friendly round of games playing TS primarily (sometimes bomb, and even CTF), choose certain maps, and desire to have only SR8, knife, and possibly pistols and nades. The number of players will typically be small at that point, and include mainly those of us on TS3, and those that prefer no PSG during these rounds. So why turn them off? Because the pub server is just that- Public. We welcome any that want to play, but play by our rules: no PSG.

Unfortunately, this cvar was left "on" at the end of these rounds (yes, both nights... holiday weekend). There is a simple solution, and it will be implemented later today.

As for it being off during gameplay two days ago... it was a new cvar, and some of us got overzealous in implementing it. It was glorious for us to not have to hear that awful sound (not like a real PSG, which I have fired), but the sounds that replaced were more awful IMO (j/k!).

As for "why turn it off? If you do not like it, talk to FS"... well... "receptive to community input" is a phrase I would not ever equate with FS personally. IMO, game balance is important. As a mapper, this is a very high priority. For every possible benefit, there must be an equally severe possible penalty, a requirement of skill. A penalty equal in severity to the benefit. For example, the greater the sniping spot, the more skill required to hold it. Bonus? Allow team work to bolster the sniper's ability to hold the spot. And, thusly, allow the enemy to hold the spot themselves, or prevent anyone from holding it.

The PSG does not have proper balance (comparatively). This is not my opinion, this is objectively true. As such, it can be annoying purely on principle. It stands out singularly as such. If *we* could somehow provide some balance rather than "simply turning it off," that would be most excellent. Eight shots per clip, with the predominant hits providing a kill or severe crippling, crosshairs that return to center/original aim after each shot (not instantly, but very quickly), low movement penalty, similar clip load time as AK, three levels of zoom, low spread pattern, etc. Compare the AK with the other autos, or compare the DE with the other pistols; the balance is there. The PSG, essentially, is like an... eight shot DE that fires (almost) more like the Glock, has an SR8 scope, can be suppressed, and has the spread of... lol... All with none of the balances any of those other weapons include.

Can't beat 'em? Join 'em! Everybody should use it! Just use a suppressor on it.. lol...

Re: You win!
Boogie Knight, Tue Sept 03 2013, 04:41PM

I usually like to use a silencer on the PSG on the rare occasions that I use it. The sound is a give away to nearby enemies. As for it returning to the exact spot that it was targeted at...if you didn't hit the guy the first time, the next 4 shots won't either. It Does require an aim. Plus, how many decent players stand still after getting hit? You have to adjust your aim, like any other weapon.I usually seem to hit legs or arms with it.
Maybe XP could give a more experienced opinion of what I've said.
Not saying don't ever turn it off, but I'd like to know what weapons are available either at the start of the map, or if changed during the map, at least let the players know.

MAP suggestion...I always liked that map that had all of the weapons stored in small buildings, and in order to move up, you had to shoot someone with a better weapon, or make your way to one of those buildings.

Re: You win!
LadyHellfire*, Tue Sept 03 2013, 05:27PM

Yes, it requires aim... just as every weapon does. Check the spread pattern sometime, then compare with any other weapon that has the same fire-return rate. As for "how many stand still after getting hit?"... lol... a decent percentage. Not voluntarily, as half of the zones provide some form of immediate immobility, be it death, or 97% stamina crippling damage. I used the PSG on nearly every map last night, and when hit detection was actually working decently, most of the time it was a 2-shot-kill. Cripple with the first, and with the opponent barely able to move, patiently wait the portion of a second for the crosshairs to drop back down to where they previously were, still scoped in, and finish the bleeding sheep off. No suppressor, as I wanted to be absolutely sure the person knew what was being used to kill them, as well as all around me. It is definitely a humorously fun weapon to use. All I need now is a dot so I can use it like a pistol for those unscoped, close-up shots!

When we turn it off for late night fun, we let all know that we have done so. To be able to specifically restrict gear per map we play... for our late night rounds, of course... is great fun for us. It is a chance to relax and sit back after the hectic, flailing, 20+ players CTF rounds, and get surgical, while still having many good laughs. A few of us simply might have gotten spoiled, and selfish, and carried it over into those hectic, flailing, 20+ persons games...

The map you might be referring to is ut4_army (IIRC). Sleeping_Guy figured out the *mapping code* to place weapons, ammo, and items into UrT maps ala Q3Arena maps. He shared this, and there are a few maps that utilize this. I placed ammo on shelves in one of my maps, and ultimately, several of my maps will have ammo and weapons at key places. In fact, my latest, Tower Nine, was originally going to have an "SR8 give" under each spawn point. This would allow the server admin to restrict gear to knives only, and thus afford each player a knife and SR8 only. With the noPSG cvar, however... lol... With the fallout from this, I will not be implementing that, and this way it can be played however people want. Please know that I built the map specifically for the SR8, knife, and HE (nade) only.

Re: You win!
Boogie Knight, Tue Sept 03 2013, 09:12PM

Not arguing your logic. I just feel at a disadvantage sometime. Maybe being forced to use certain weapons will make me better at them! :)

Re: You win!
wily duck, Thu Sept 05 2013, 12:11AM

OP here.

Changing up weapon cvars, per map, are pretty standard fare nowadays on the server. Usually to control spamming autos, or whatever. Ok.

However, trends have been pointing strongly towards effectively silently banning the psg. This movement has been gaining ground rapidly. Based on my history in the urt forums, a number of you may recognize my reputation for spotting out, and calling out, misguided trends.

My issue is with potentially banning the psg as a standard server option. If the intent is to adjust per-map loadouts, then at least we know what to expect, like with autos off. That's different.

You see my feathers get all ruffled when dominant players and admins of the community are found atop a slippery slope appearing to be intentionally disregarding their supporters. It would be a disservice to the community not to discuss the matter.

Conclusion: per-map toggle = sure. Removal = bad.

Lab test: one day a week, make it no psg day. It'd be interesting to see who cheers, who compromises, and who passes. That'd be fair.

Re: You win!
DeviL, Thu Sept 05 2013, 04:40AM

Didn't read the whole thread, so just my two cents:
there are no n00b/ghey or whatever weapons in this game and none should be forbidden just because others cant adapt getting killed

Re: You win!
Tranc3r, Thu Sept 05 2013, 12:53PM

I have an idea. Negevs only, forever. I'll send the request to Frozen Sand to dismantle all other guns.

Advantage by using PSG, hell yes. It allows you to screw up and still be A-Okay. In this game, it's just a semi-automatic SR-8. If I had to choose PSG or SR-8 irl, and the concepts of the two guns played the same, I'd go with PSG instantly...

But... in-game, whoever uses a PSG has no skill though. I don't take kills by a psg by players at all serious or competitive-worthy. But who cares what I think about those players, and I don't really care what they think about me... I played Instagib on Q3A for years, so I'm heavily supportive of sr-8 only.... But... just have fun in the game, that's why we all got it, right??????????????? You can still have fun even with psg not in :D

One more thing, these gun selection settings are important in sniper dedicated maps such as the one that has a large door that goes up and down and you shoot the enemy on the other end - using sr-8 only makes it a lot more of a challenge and allows the players with quick reflexes and aim (skill) to go to the top. Also, it allows a level'd gameplay between ALL players if one sniper weapon is allowed.

Re: You win!
Sasquatch, Thu Sept 05 2013, 02:39PM

call me low skilled but Iv never got accustom to SR8. PSG all the way, I need a second or third chance. hell I don't hit half the time with it. SR8 sucks for me, games with sr8 only will have me looking somewhere else to play.

Re: You win!
risk, Thu Sept 05 2013, 06:52PM

But... in-game, whoever uses a PSG has no skill though. I don't take kills by a psg by players at all serious or competitive-worthy. But who cares what I think about those players, and I don't really care what they think about me...

Tranc3r

Pretty strong words there, partner.
I will follow up with more on this thread when I return from some errands.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Never mind. Who cares what I think.

Re: You win!
wily duck, Thu Sept 05 2013, 11:10PM

So wait, someone sort this paradox out for me - the SR8'ers are saying the PSG is the superior weapon, but choose to use the inferior weapon, then poke fun at other players who have wisely decided to use the superior weapon, going so far as to remove the superior weapon from play instead of leveling the playing field absolutely evenly by refusing to equip it themselves, except to prove which weapon is superior, and then again mock its superiority? LOL!

You guys sound like a bunch of snooty weenie TS pubbers! Ha!!

Seriously though, after a day of thinking about it, a once-a-week no-psg day would likely go over quite well with the current community. I recommend it. And any other day, yes, you will die in 2 rounds. Or 5. Or seven and a reload and a couple more and maybe some auto spamming. At least step on the nade I dropped before you leave my warm slick corpse behind. Fuck it, HK69 just got your number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSG-1
The PSG1 (Präzisionsschützengewehr, German for "precision-shooter rifle" or "marksman rifle") is a semi-automatic sniper rifle designed by the German company Heckler & Koch of Oberndorf am Neckar.

http://www.snipercentral.com/sr8.htm
... the SR8 is a prototype sniper rifle, there are no current plans to produce the rifle...

Re: You win!
Fokker, Fri Sept 06 2013, 10:07PM

What is with all this gun control crap. Don't you guys subscribe to your 2nd amendment rights ? PSG for everyone !!

Re: You win!
risk, Sat Sept 07 2013, 11:14AM

OMG. A Canadian cuts to the heart of the issue.

For shame, America. For shame.