Superman Stacking

deleted-user, Wed Mar 16 2011, 05:46PM

I've noticed an annoying trend on the server. I've talked to other superman players and many have noticed it as well. The problem is kind of hard to quantify exactly, so I'm hoping we superman regulars can figure it out together. Please, post your thoughts and observations.

Superman regulars seem to designate one team to join, and thereby dominate the server. I'll see a familiar name connect and sit in spec for some time. Then some 'noob' will connect and autojoin the team the regular doesn't want to play on. THEN the regular joins the winning team where all the other regulars are playing. Result: Another massively unbalanced pub game with a score like 20-0.

Come on guys and gals, we're better than this, aren't we?
Re: Superman Stacking
woge, Wed Mar 16 2011, 07:14PM


Come on guys and gals, we're better than this, aren't we?

MrTinker.Um3

obviously not.

the retards team is formed by afks, noobs and campers, and when i say campers i dont mean snipers that are useful to their team, i mean that guy on one far end of the map that gets a kill every 5 minutes and never gets killed himself.

that means that you are the only 1 trying to get the flag, that is protected by 3 opponents, and if you get the flag, you also have to recover your teams flag yourself, and if you do that then nobody is guarding your flag so the other team gets it before you get back to base.

so its not fun and its kinda pointless.

the regulars team on the other hand flows like clockwork, everybody knows what hes doing.

one solution would be moving admins to the retards team on autobalance so they can give example and help the retards team, since admins are highly skilled players as we all know, they should have a greater impact when switching to the retards team than unprivileged players.
Re: Superman Stacking
Boogie Knight, Wed Mar 16 2011, 07:35PM

This has been going on for quite some time. All players should ALWAYS use autojoin when first joining the server. Not, as Tink says, waiting in spec, and then join when there is a slot open on the team that you want to be on.
Re: Superman Stacking
Boogie Knight, Wed Mar 16 2011, 07:42PM

Another trend that seems to be happening lately is warning players for cheating until they are tempbanned by B3. Either that or they are outright banned by an admin (WITHOUT a demo).
We were all instructed by dank to always make a demo before kicking or banning someone for cheating. Recently I have seen players kicked or banned and yet there is no demo posted here in these forums. Supposedly, we forward the demos on to UAA for global banning on all UAA servers. By only banning them here, you are allowing these cheats to take their bots or hacks elsewhere (where we all sometimes play) where they can make life miserable for others. Also, without a demo, if a player comes to the forums and says "hey, i was banned, what gives?", we have no proof.
Re: Superman Stacking
creeper, Wed Mar 16 2011, 10:52PM

can i suggest that level 30 admins be allowed to join any team?
(and i don't mean all the time.)

I used to be able to help fix stacked teams by joining the losing team and doing a !teams, but I can't do that anymore with the forced autojoin.

Once the teams become severely unbalanced, it's sort of interesting what keeps it that way. People invariably drop off when they can't win. New players come on (or an admin does !teams). Since autobalance doesn't move regulars, all it does is make it worse.

I enjoy playing on the underdog, but I don't like being on *either* side of a 0-20 match .... BORING !

Re: Superman Stacking
bowling, Thu Mar 17 2011, 01:32AM

Sometimes a quick match is fun, and sometimes I don't mind being on the receiving end when the other team is having a great run. If I join in to a 14-20 player game and the skills are unbalanced, this is something different. I'd prefer to sit around in spec until a slot opens on the underdogs than to autojoin up to fill an empty slot on a team which is up many caps.

I have never witnessed collusion amongst regulars to get on the same team. It just works out this way. We have a lot of good sports and regulars on the Superman server that I'm sure would prefer a level field and would like the option to control it. I don't like it when a normal player who is having a good run, has contributed multiple caps to a single team and so on switched in a numbers game. Autojoin and autobalancing teams keeps it simple and under control but may not favor the game play with so many coming and going during a match.

I've been in the situation woge describes many times, and yes, this is no fun. In that situation, you just have to play it out and come back later to play with a reasonable group to make up for it. Creeper hammers in a good point and I feel similarly.

When joining, most every time, I join spec to assess who's on teams and what the scores look are. When I see a team stacked with regulars or very skilled players with a clear lead, I very much like it when autojoin favors me to join the underdog team. If it appears that the winning team is down a player, then yes, sometimes I wait around (not too long if possible) until they even out or a slot opens so I can get with the underdogs. If this isn't acceptable, then I'd rather quit and come back later.
Re: Superman Stacking
BlackSix, Thu Mar 17 2011, 02:46AM

Making auto-join and autobalance based on skill . Im sure alot guys would rage quit . End round Scramble would be kool .
Re: Superman Stacking
Boogie Knight, Thu Mar 17 2011, 08:31AM

Don't know if it's possible, but last in should be forced to the team with less players even if they are admins. What difference does it make if you're an admin? As far as balancing teams, all players should be treated equally, IMO. I HAVE noticed players such as Acehole and Osko (and myself), who seem to enjoy a challenge, and will put themselves on the losing, noob team.
Re: Superman Stacking
BanMe, Thu Mar 17 2011, 09:16AM


I HAVE noticed players such as Acehole and Osko (and myself), who seem to enjoy a challenge, and will put themselves on the losing, noob team.

Boogie Knight
Thats what we try to do but the forced auto join keeps me from doing that. Id normally stack the lower team and do !teams to even it back up. Normally this would solve the problem. Now we can't really do this.
Re: Superman Stacking
Squrl, Thu Mar 17 2011, 03:14PM

kinda going off what creeper was sayin is there any way to make the admins go to the less fortunate team if they want to...other than moving someone then joing the other team



dammit Ban where did the boobies go! I havent been in the forums in a week so I just noticed
Re: Superman Stacking
BanMe, Thu Mar 17 2011, 04:20PM


dammit Ban where did the boobies go! I havent been in the forums in a week so I just noticed

Squrl
Squrl wins.

I wanted to see how long it would take someone to say something about my boobs going away.

took 2 days lol
Re: Superman Stacking
£emm0, Thu Mar 17 2011, 04:54PM

This game was fun.
24pyzxk
Re: Superman Stacking
Boogie Knight, Thu Mar 17 2011, 05:48PM

Under present conditions, all we can do is force a player to spec and then switch yourself to the losing team, then force him to the other team. You can always ask for a volunteer.
Re: Superman Stacking
el kabong, Thu Mar 17 2011, 08:44PM

If everyone uses autojoin, regardless of status or affiliation, the problem resolves itself.

Randomness is a part of the game that keeps it fun and interesting. General attrition and the competitive nature of the better players will balance the rounds as they progress.

I'm in the autojoin forcing camp.
Re: Superman Stacking
russa, Fri Mar 18 2011, 03:20PM

Maybe you admin's should come up with a list of people that have been guilty of this many times. Then post their names here, and warn them that they my receive a temp ban
for stacking. I would also use bigtext ingame letting them no that they may be added to this list if they don't autojoin right away. I with El Kabong on the autojoin feature, I too reside in the autojoin camp also. In fact, I don't
believe I'v ever sat in spec waiting to stack ( Im not joking).
Re: Superman Stacking
deleted-user, Fri Mar 18 2011, 03:49PM

In principle, your idea might work, Russa. Something like Acetone's "sad and weak!" list.
Re: Superman Stacking
poohster, Fri Mar 18 2011, 08:40PM

The reg's not auto balancing will also trend the newbs to the same teams over a long game.
Re: Superman Stacking
el kabong, Fri Mar 18 2011, 09:03PM


The reg's not auto balancing will also trend the newbs to the same teams over a long game.

poohster

let me guess....commodities broker?
Re: Superman Stacking
poohster, Sat Mar 19 2011, 02:14AM

Nah, IT Dude. But was an econ major :P
Re: Superman Stacking
deleted-user, Sat Mar 19 2011, 04:31AM


Nah, IT Dude. But was an econ major :P

poohster
*high five the econ majors*
Re: Superman Stacking
woge, Sat Mar 19 2011, 05:34AM


Maybe you admin's should come up with a list of people that have been guilty of this many times. Then post their names here, and warn them that they my receive a temp ban
for stacking. I would also use bigtext ingame letting them no that they may be added to this list if they don't autojoin right away. I with El Kabong on the autojoin feature, I too reside in the autojoin camp also. In fact, I don't
believe I'v ever sat in spec waiting to stack ( Im not joking).

russa

i thought it was assumed that some admins also spec to stack. if it it wasnt clear they do.
in fact, some of the people who posted on this thread claiming they dont display this behaviour actually do spec to stack teams.
its widespread, lets not be so hypocritical pls.
admins are more than necessary and do a good job for the most part, but theyre also human and some are more "human" than others. theyre no superman ;P

besides how are you going to prove an admin is stacking? he can always say he was doing important admin stuff and that he joined the strong team at the right moment by pure chance...

also, spec time at join is random depends on the pc speed so how long can some1 spec before being suspected? sounds complicated.
Re: Superman Stacking
Boogie Knight, Sat Mar 19 2011, 09:21AM

all i'm saying is that regs and admins maybe should NOT be protected by !teams. It always just moves the noobs. The losing team is more apt to have players drop during a game, so we type !teams (or B3 balances) and the noobs are moved to the losing team.
Re: Superman Stacking
DeviL, Sat Mar 19 2011, 10:02AM



Maybe you admin's should come up with a list of people that have been guilty of this many times. Then post their names here, and warn them that they my receive a temp ban
for stacking. I would also use bigtext ingame letting them no that they may be added to this list if they don't autojoin right away. I with El Kabong on the autojoin feature, I too reside in the autojoin camp also. In fact, I don't
believe I'v ever sat in spec waiting to stack ( Im not joking).

russa

i thought it was assumed that some admins also spec to stack. if it it wasnt clear they do.
in fact, some of the people who posted on this thread claiming they dont display this behaviour actually do spec to stack teams.
its widespread, lets not be so hypocritical pls.
admins are more than necessary and do a good job for the most part, but theyre also human and some are more "human" than others. theyre no superman ;P

besides how are you going to prove an admin is stacking? he can always say he was doing important admin stuff and that he joined the strong team at the right moment by pure chance...

also, spec time at join is random depends on the pc speed so how long can some1 spec before being suspected? sounds complicated.

woge

your part about the "stacking admins", the admins of the superman server are no asshats who want to play in winning team, enough said.
Re: Superman Stacking
FSK405|EZ, Sat Mar 19 2011, 10:44AM

I'm sure that we all recognize what seems to be stacking when some great players are all on one team. That being said we all must admit as admins and players we have all played on those 20 to 0 teams. One thing we should also recognize is that when a team is down any admin is happy to try and even the playing field by hopping to the other team to try and fair up the game. I for one have played many matches where it seemed to be stacked , but I play on and watch the other players to learn to play better. Stacked teams can offer us all a good lesson if we watch good players and how they work together and pay attention to the spots they use to keep the other team at bay. Is stacking good practice? NO! But it really isn't happening all the time.
Re: Superman Stacking
poohster, Sat Mar 19 2011, 12:41PM

all i'm saying is that regs and admins maybe should NOT be protected by !teams. It always just moves the noobs. The losing team is more apt to have players drop during a game, so we type !teams (or B3 balances) and the noobs are moved to the losing team. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Was the change of regs not moving a recent change? I agree that this is probably the cause.
Re: Superman Stacking
woge, Sat Mar 19 2011, 12:47PM


your part about the "stacking admins", the admins of the superman server are no asshats who want to play in winning team, enough said.

DeviL

lol, right... ive just been in a game, on which and admin switched to the "losing team" when it started to get good players and cap flags, he didnt change to the losing team when it was losing, only changed when it started to win, hence stacking and turning the underdog team onto the regulars team.
im sure its just bad timing from his part...
sigh...
from my part im gonna start considering ~15 as the new cap limit, since people seem to lose interest in capping after the 15th cap or so.
Re: Superman Stacking
woge, Sat Mar 19 2011, 01:17PM

lol he just did it again, was in spec for about 5 minutes doing important admin stuff, and he joins the only time the winning team was open for autojoin, lol, yeah let admins help the underdog team, haha!
Re: Superman Stacking
el kabong, Sat Mar 19 2011, 01:21PM

What are you expected to do when you join the losing team and turn it around to the point where it is now the winning team? Are you supposed to then go back to the (now) losing team?

I contend, as an admin, you are there to help keep the game from being destroyed by hacks and asshats, not make sure everyone gets to play on a winning team. Playing against better players only makes you better. Stacking teams is unsportsmanlike and just an asshat move. I see it, but I suspect it is some of the younger admins that are dong this. However, games that become randomly stacked are over quicker and players have an opportunity to be on a new team, since we have to reconnect to continue playing most of the time.

I've seen other B3 servers suggest a player from a team to join the other when a vacancy occurs. I think it uses the players stats to select someone that has some skills that will benefit the other team. Can we do that, only set up B3 to select the player and move them accordingly?
Re: Superman Stacking
poohster, Sat Mar 19 2011, 01:27PM

i mean that guy on one far end of the map that gets a kill every 5 minutes and never gets killed himself.

For what it's worth, I have been this sniper, as camping of blue with nvg's on freeze on doom is rampant. So I sat on the end of the freeway for 5 min breaking them of the habit. This comment is along the line of the flag carrier hiding too well and complaining that it slows down the game. Some people work the strategy part of CTF. Some just want it to be a continual exchange of flags.
Re: Superman Stacking
deleted-user, Sat Mar 19 2011, 05:08PM


What are you expected to do when you join the losing team and turn it around to the point where it is now the winning team? Are you supposed to then go back to the (now) losing team?

el kabong
I ran into that problem recently. My current team was winning very strongly so I went to the other team to lend a hand. Slowly my new team started to win. At around the 17 cap mark I noticed my team was all regulars and I was in a pickle. Switch back or finish the stacked round? (I went spec.)

I don't think anyone expects more than a single team switch from a player (admin or not). This is a game; meant to have a winning and a losing team.
Re: Superman Stacking
Explorateur, Sat Mar 19 2011, 09:34PM


all i'm saying is that regs and admins maybe should NOT be protected by !teams. It always just moves the noobs. The losing team is more apt to have players drop during a game, so we type !teams (or B3 balances) and the noobs are moved to the losing team.

Boogie Knight

Should this also be the case on the pub server? It will NEVER happen.

As for the bitching about the guy in the corner camping and never dying yet only getting one kill every 5 mins...who cares that's the game...He plays his game you play yours.
I take it when you go to the casino and play black jack you yell at the guy next to you when he takes "your" card??? when you think he should have "stayed"? You would get your ass kicked then thrown out.

I know everyone feels very passionate about the game but come on.

I play at superman every now and then, and what i see is not stacking but euros that do not know how to auto join. there is no much traffic in and out of superman its hard to keep track of whats going on. Then again I play to have fun and don't get all worked up when my team loses because the other team has "better" players.

My ten cents (since my two cents is free)

XP
Re: Superman Stacking
DeviL, Sun Mar 20 2011, 04:42AM


(...) and what i see is not stacking but euros that do not know how to auto join.

Explorateur

prejudice...
Re: Superman Stacking
CDaly, Wed Mar 23 2011, 03:24PM


the retards team is formed by afks, noobs and campers, and when i say campers i dont mean snipers that are useful to their team, i mean that guy on one far end of the map that gets a kill every 5 minutes and never gets killed himself.

woge

Those who like to slink around on the ground as some sort of 1337 sniper trying to get high kill to death ratios do irk me on occasion. I like to hunt them sometimes and love it when I can sneak up and knife or drop down and stomp them :)

On the meta topic, I hope this isn't deliberate by regulars. I auto-join and am sometimes in spec for a bit when I first join I prefer to balance teams and will join the underdogs. If enough regulars do the same as many do it makes for an interesting game.
Re: Superman Stacking
deleted-user, Wed Mar 23 2011, 08:50PM

F1 on all accounts, CD. You should(n't) hear the the mean, angry things I say to binge on ts3 at times ;) And then there's the mean, spiteful things I say when I kill or (better yet) stomp him!

*sniff* I <3 Binge ;)