Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 03:55PMJust a thought but has it ever been tried or even considered to give these guys their own server to play on?
Maybe if they had their own sand box they would stay off of the main servers.
PS I just realized that I posted this in the wrong section. Please can someone move?
Re: Aim bots and such things
xyster, Thu May 14 2009, 04:19PM
A great idea. Not for fsk though. We don't tie in to anything hacker related. But those asshats only have fun if they're ruining our day. They should all be de-nutted.
xyster, Thu May 14 2009, 04:19PM
A great idea. Not for fsk though. We don't tie in to anything hacker related. But those asshats only have fun if they're ruining our day. They should all be de-nutted.
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 04:42PM
Well sad to say there will be those who find enjoyment in just being a pest but I think that they are out numbered by those who simply want to play the game their way.
Then again maybe the pests would be more than happy to play with other pests with in their own little box.
Personally I’ve been playing on-line since the Q2 days and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a server set up that allows the use of hacks and aim bots. Understandable that a server like fsk would not want to be associated with such a site but if they have the resources could be the first to try a Black Hat server just to see what would happen.
Who knows maybe other server operators would jump on the bandwagon.
It just seems like any software attempt, PunkBuster was a bust, only motivates someone to try and hack around it and usually is a pain to the straight player.
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 04:42PM
Well sad to say there will be those who find enjoyment in just being a pest but I think that they are out numbered by those who simply want to play the game their way.
Then again maybe the pests would be more than happy to play with other pests with in their own little box.
Personally I’ve been playing on-line since the Q2 days and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a server set up that allows the use of hacks and aim bots. Understandable that a server like fsk would not want to be associated with such a site but if they have the resources could be the first to try a Black Hat server just to see what would happen.
Who knows maybe other server operators would jump on the bandwagon.
It just seems like any software attempt, PunkBuster was a bust, only motivates someone to try and hack around it and usually is a pain to the straight player.
Re: Aim bots and such things
mindriot, Thu May 14 2009, 05:40PM
try putting yourself in a hacker's shoes (not literally). why hack? to have an advantage over other players and/or to piss them off. a dedicated box for hackers would be an equal playing field, which is no fun for a hacker. the minimal effort required to provide a server for such a purpose is not worth it. rewarding their inability to understand the value of a fair game sends the wrong message.
sorry to shoot down your idea. regardless, we're always open to new ideas and strategies to deal with these asshats. :D
mindriot, Thu May 14 2009, 05:40PM
try putting yourself in a hacker's shoes (not literally). why hack? to have an advantage over other players and/or to piss them off. a dedicated box for hackers would be an equal playing field, which is no fun for a hacker. the minimal effort required to provide a server for such a purpose is not worth it. rewarding their inability to understand the value of a fair game sends the wrong message.
sorry to shoot down your idea. regardless, we're always open to new ideas and strategies to deal with these asshats. :D
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 06:19PM
Well who really knows what goes through the mind of a hacker and just what defines fair play?
Personally I find them a bunch of interesting individuals and by majority are easy enough to spot.
As for spotting one that’s easy but first off to be clear I do play clean but to spot a hacker you hack the hacker. Watching the demos I will use a wall hack and it becomes apparent real fast if the player is using one as well.
I really don’t have the bandwidth resources but just to see what happens I’m thinking of setting up a honey pot with something like “Black Hat Server Aim bots and hacks welcomedâ€
Also I don’t know if it’s a technique being used today but the fundamental flaw was trying to take the human evaluation out of the equation. Punk Buster tried to cover as many different footprints as possible that usually had a negative effect on someone with excellent skills.
Hacks have a pattern and what is needed is the ability of the software to notify an admin or ref when such a pattern is occurring. It’s simply improbable or imposable for software to account for human interaction.
To calculate if someone is playing on the same field as everyone else you simply identify probability factors as a percentage which sends up a flag that this is someone that needs to be spec or looked at.
Overall though this is a problem that has been going on for years and trying to solve the problem through software has only been a pain in the asshat for those of use that do play clean and maybe its time to consider trying something that has never been done before.
After all how hard is it to set up a test server?
Sorry for ranting on but these guys are really staring to bug me. WORST yet makes me question the genuine skilled player. Are they or are they not using a hack?
P.S.
What’s an asshat?
Someone who comes over and crouches up and down on your face? :) j/k
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 06:19PM
Well who really knows what goes through the mind of a hacker and just what defines fair play?
Personally I find them a bunch of interesting individuals and by majority are easy enough to spot.
As for spotting one that’s easy but first off to be clear I do play clean but to spot a hacker you hack the hacker. Watching the demos I will use a wall hack and it becomes apparent real fast if the player is using one as well.
I really don’t have the bandwidth resources but just to see what happens I’m thinking of setting up a honey pot with something like “Black Hat Server Aim bots and hacks welcomedâ€
Also I don’t know if it’s a technique being used today but the fundamental flaw was trying to take the human evaluation out of the equation. Punk Buster tried to cover as many different footprints as possible that usually had a negative effect on someone with excellent skills.
Hacks have a pattern and what is needed is the ability of the software to notify an admin or ref when such a pattern is occurring. It’s simply improbable or imposable for software to account for human interaction.
To calculate if someone is playing on the same field as everyone else you simply identify probability factors as a percentage which sends up a flag that this is someone that needs to be spec or looked at.
Overall though this is a problem that has been going on for years and trying to solve the problem through software has only been a pain in the asshat for those of use that do play clean and maybe its time to consider trying something that has never been done before.
After all how hard is it to set up a test server?
Sorry for ranting on but these guys are really staring to bug me. WORST yet makes me question the genuine skilled player. Are they or are they not using a hack?
P.S.
What’s an asshat?
Someone who comes over and crouches up and down on your face? :) j/k
Re: Aim bots and such things
BatMann, Thu May 14 2009, 07:06PM
dude i dont see anyone paying to be abused by hackers they are on a power trip with no power. its sad really and i wish they would go home and let there daddy beat them some more .but all in good time .
BatMann, Thu May 14 2009, 07:06PM
dude i dont see anyone paying to be abused by hackers they are on a power trip with no power. its sad really and i wish they would go home and let there daddy beat them some more .but all in good time .
Re: Aim bots and such things
LadyHellfire*, Thu May 14 2009, 07:26PM
Did OJ do it? Same thing here. Only OJ (and maybe a few select people) know for sure, 100%. Would you seriously place your life on the betting table on a pure "yes, he did" versus "no, he did not" bet? Seriously? Some hackers are obvious, and for them.. intent or ability will be different than the truly disruptive hacker, and they are typically very easy to spot and be rid of.
In addition to hacks, you have exploits. You also have things like the "Dot on monitor for SR8" thing. And a whole bunch of others. Play with full graphics, including shadows? Well, you dont have to.. and I do not. When I play, unless it is a "hard shadow," no one is hiding in them. Exploit? Hack? Nope. I cannot see through smoke, but crouch under eaves and I can see you. Walk into a lightness room, and I cannot see you. It is a setting in the game, and as such, it is my choice- and yours. The playing field is uneven to begin with. Improvise, overcome.. adapt.
"Loose hacks" (the noob type.. flailing about with a negev, mowing each player down with obvious aimbot flicking, etc) are easy to spot, and on a well policed server, short-lived. Stop on the FSK pub during the afternoon-nighttime hours (EST->PST) and you will hardly ever encounter a loose hack that lasts for very long. The hardcore hacker will be difficult to spot, and coincidence/synchronicity will need to be carefully considered, lest ye condemn falsely. "Off woith his head!" "Oh shit.. wow.. I think we erred.. can we attach his head again?" :D lol..
The "in-between" hack is an interesting one. They make mistakes, and get caught over longer periods of observation, and often via exchange of observations (UAA is a GREAT example of this!). Allowing a server to have an admin or admins join invisibly would be an incredible tool. To be able to demo someone without them knowing is the most essential piece that is missing currently (IMO!). THIS would the "human" part fo the equation you spoke of. B3 will help, but "invisible, unknown observation" is what will be the BIGGEST thing we could have. No plans for it that I know of though..
Lastly, attempting to enter the mind of the hacker via hacking oneself.. NOT an answer, period. Using a hack will not enable one to identify a hacker, just as firing a handgun will not allow you to understand anything about "Son of Sam" (for example). Living in a garbage dump does not Charlie Manson you make. It is the underlying mental state of the hacker that provides the means to hack. A hacker that has "seen the light" might be able to offer insight as to their particular brand of hacker, but would NOT be an all-encompassing profile of all hackers.. not even a general portrait, but rather a single person in a rather large family portrait.
Finally, and this is something I am dealing with now, it comes down to how much you let it all affect you. Certain environments can be seen as a bit cleaner, or at least only populated regularly by the most elite of hackers. You wont catch them; someone else will. Can you tolerate that enough to ignore it for the most part and simply enjoy the game? Only you can answer that. It is irritating. But, most times I can tolerate simply because I can hop on teamspeak with other players on the FSK405 Pub (donations SOLELY allow this to exist!!!), and thus it becomes a game,. and a social gathering. A bit adult sometimes during the later hours, but a great gathering of folks. Sunday Scrim takes things to yet another level of care-free gaming, and even more fun socially (IMO).
Crouching on the face is known as "teabagging," a derogatory action of insult, typically a friendly insult. Like a dutch oven, vaseline on the toilet seat, etc. Sort of like this...
LadyHellfire*, Thu May 14 2009, 07:26PM
Does not matter what goes through their mind. Simple question: What does a person gain by using a hack? Gratification of some kind, period. To err on the side of simplicity and offer hackers a "hacks only paradise" would be unsuccessful. Behavioural studies would show the hacker that would play on such a server to be in a very, very, very small percentage. The label "hacker" is a smaller piece of a larger classification.MadMan_X
Well who really knows what goes through the mind of a hacker and just what defines fair play?
Just as easy as it is to spot each and every individual in a social gathering (work, train station, bus, school, etc) that will later commit a crime, from sublime to utterly heinous. IOW, good luck. But yes- some are easy to catch, yet others are VERY good at what they do. For some, eluding the great Sherlock Holmes is, or becomes, the primary objective in achieving gratification or release (no, not necessarily sexual in nature).MadMan_X
Personally I find them a bunch of interesting individuals and by majority are easy enough to spot.
See above. I could show examples of players that are exceptional at disguising their methods.MadMan_X
As for spotting one that’s easy but first off to be clear I do play clean but to spot a hacker you hack the hacker. Watching the demos I will use a wall hack and it becomes apparent real fast if the player is using one as well.
The type(s) this would ensnare would be in a minority, and this would also attract a different type of hacker. Gratification is achieved through a different means. Invisible observation in a blind situation with factual filtering afterward would be one of the very few ways of obtaining genuine, usable information.MadMan_X
I really don’t have the bandwidth resources but just to see what happens I’m thinking of setting up a honey pot with something like “Black Hat Server Aim bots and hacks welcomedâ€
Did OJ do it? Same thing here. Only OJ (and maybe a few select people) know for sure, 100%. Would you seriously place your life on the betting table on a pure "yes, he did" versus "no, he did not" bet? Seriously? Some hackers are obvious, and for them.. intent or ability will be different than the truly disruptive hacker, and they are typically very easy to spot and be rid of.
An app hack is easy: it is altered code, or added code . Hacking that which polices said code for "purity" is yet another aspect. It is creating a policing mechanism that does not interfere unnecessarily with those NOT utilizing hack code. Changing one's graphics outside of the app to obtain advantage cannot be effectively policed, and as such.. well, is not a hack per se, but rather exploiting the very nature of (digital) interfacing. Paint a dot on your monitor and use an unscoped SR8.. not a hack. And no way to prevent someone from doing so.MadMan_X
Also I don’t know if it’s a technique being used today but the fundamental flaw was trying to take the human evaluation out of the equation. Punk Buster tried to cover as many different footprints as possible that usually had a negative effect on someone with excellent skills.
Good luck! To associate patterns with hacking is akin to a witch hunt. It implies that no person would be capable of developing certain patterns without code modifications. A talented hacker is capable of avoiding even that type of detection. The only way to catch the most talented hacker is.. patience. 99% of all people who intentionally violate rules/laws will eventually make a mistake that a skilled observer can catch. Yin-Yang.MadMan_X
Hacks have a pattern and what is needed is the ability of the software to notify an admin or ref when such a pattern is occurring. It’s simply improbable or imposable for software to account for human interaction.
To calculate if someone is playing on the same field as everyone else you simply identify probability factors as a percentage which sends up a flag that this is someone that needs to be spec or looked at.
Inevitably, and eventually, if one questions this, they must look within and decide just how much they will allow it to interfere with their gaming experience. Try this: Play Scrabble online. Did you lose alot? Yeah, thought so. There are utilities that will have you enter your letters, and then you can try combos of available letters on the board for play. In essence, you are likely to end up playing a computer instead of a person at some point. How often? Who knows.MadMan_X
Overall though this is a problem that has been going on for years and trying to solve the problem through software has only been a pain in the asshat for those of use that do play clean and maybe its time to consider trying something that has never been done before.
After all how hard is it to set up a test server?
Sorry for ranting on but these guys are really staring to bug me. WORST yet makes me question the genuine skilled player. Are they or are they not using a hack?
In addition to hacks, you have exploits. You also have things like the "Dot on monitor for SR8" thing. And a whole bunch of others. Play with full graphics, including shadows? Well, you dont have to.. and I do not. When I play, unless it is a "hard shadow," no one is hiding in them. Exploit? Hack? Nope. I cannot see through smoke, but crouch under eaves and I can see you. Walk into a lightness room, and I cannot see you. It is a setting in the game, and as such, it is my choice- and yours. The playing field is uneven to begin with. Improvise, overcome.. adapt.
"Loose hacks" (the noob type.. flailing about with a negev, mowing each player down with obvious aimbot flicking, etc) are easy to spot, and on a well policed server, short-lived. Stop on the FSK pub during the afternoon-nighttime hours (EST->PST) and you will hardly ever encounter a loose hack that lasts for very long. The hardcore hacker will be difficult to spot, and coincidence/synchronicity will need to be carefully considered, lest ye condemn falsely. "Off woith his head!" "Oh shit.. wow.. I think we erred.. can we attach his head again?" :D lol..
The "in-between" hack is an interesting one. They make mistakes, and get caught over longer periods of observation, and often via exchange of observations (UAA is a GREAT example of this!). Allowing a server to have an admin or admins join invisibly would be an incredible tool. To be able to demo someone without them knowing is the most essential piece that is missing currently (IMO!). THIS would the "human" part fo the equation you spoke of. B3 will help, but "invisible, unknown observation" is what will be the BIGGEST thing we could have. No plans for it that I know of though..
Lastly, attempting to enter the mind of the hacker via hacking oneself.. NOT an answer, period. Using a hack will not enable one to identify a hacker, just as firing a handgun will not allow you to understand anything about "Son of Sam" (for example). Living in a garbage dump does not Charlie Manson you make. It is the underlying mental state of the hacker that provides the means to hack. A hacker that has "seen the light" might be able to offer insight as to their particular brand of hacker, but would NOT be an all-encompassing profile of all hackers.. not even a general portrait, but rather a single person in a rather large family portrait.
Finally, and this is something I am dealing with now, it comes down to how much you let it all affect you. Certain environments can be seen as a bit cleaner, or at least only populated regularly by the most elite of hackers. You wont catch them; someone else will. Can you tolerate that enough to ignore it for the most part and simply enjoy the game? Only you can answer that. It is irritating. But, most times I can tolerate simply because I can hop on teamspeak with other players on the FSK405 Pub (donations SOLELY allow this to exist!!!), and thus it becomes a game,. and a social gathering. A bit adult sometimes during the later hours, but a great gathering of folks. Sunday Scrim takes things to yet another level of care-free gaming, and even more fun socially (IMO).
LOL... a true asshat is someone who just does stuff to irritate and disrupt, or is so clueless, even after having been shown, warned, etc. The eternal noob, whether by choice or lack.MadMan_X
P.S.
What’s an asshat?
Someone who comes over and crouches up and down on your face? :) j/k
Crouching on the face is known as "teabagging," a derogatory action of insult, typically a friendly insult. Like a dutch oven, vaseline on the toilet seat, etc. Sort of like this...
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 08:03PM
Wow some interesting stuff.
First the idea of a box to put these hackers into is not so much about giving them a place, then who knows it might work, but rather creating the ability to gather as much data as possible in an environment that you know such action as hacking takes place.
The difficulty of gathering enough data so the “hacker†could be mathematically spotted is difficult because they are a random occurrence and it’s next to imposable to profile them in a short period of time.
A hacker can be profiled as easy as the FBI can profile a serial killer and the software can easily be adapted. Obliviously the FBI is more interested in catching the serial killer than someone who would be interested in taking up the task of actually programming a means of catching a hacker in a video game.
So in general is anyone really interested in taking steps towards catching these guys, for no other reason than it might be fun to do so, or simply to accept it as part of the game?
Personally I’m willing to accept the fact that such occurrences do happen but part of my fun would be to actually catch them in the act and the better they are at hacking the box the more fun I’ll have at catching them. In other words as much as the hacker might find their own gratification I gain a level of my own gratification by catching them. :)
Once again Punk Buster tried to take the human interaction out of the equation but even spotting someone using a spec cheat should not be difficult to profile simply because all hackers have a pattern that is simply imposable to verify unquestionable. This is not to say that boom they are gone but rather to set off an alarm that something needs to be checked out.
Granted this is not going to be a wiz bang solution and on a slow server flags go up fast but in the heat of battle it would be nice for an admin to at least have the software paying attention that says “hay something is not right hereâ€. Over time the software could be tweaked to the point that it could very well spot the hacker quicker than observation or demo recording.
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 08:03PM
Wow some interesting stuff.
First the idea of a box to put these hackers into is not so much about giving them a place, then who knows it might work, but rather creating the ability to gather as much data as possible in an environment that you know such action as hacking takes place.
The difficulty of gathering enough data so the “hacker†could be mathematically spotted is difficult because they are a random occurrence and it’s next to imposable to profile them in a short period of time.
A hacker can be profiled as easy as the FBI can profile a serial killer and the software can easily be adapted. Obliviously the FBI is more interested in catching the serial killer than someone who would be interested in taking up the task of actually programming a means of catching a hacker in a video game.
So in general is anyone really interested in taking steps towards catching these guys, for no other reason than it might be fun to do so, or simply to accept it as part of the game?
Personally I’m willing to accept the fact that such occurrences do happen but part of my fun would be to actually catch them in the act and the better they are at hacking the box the more fun I’ll have at catching them. In other words as much as the hacker might find their own gratification I gain a level of my own gratification by catching them. :)
Once again Punk Buster tried to take the human interaction out of the equation but even spotting someone using a spec cheat should not be difficult to profile simply because all hackers have a pattern that is simply imposable to verify unquestionable. This is not to say that boom they are gone but rather to set off an alarm that something needs to be checked out.
Granted this is not going to be a wiz bang solution and on a slow server flags go up fast but in the heat of battle it would be nice for an admin to at least have the software paying attention that says “hay something is not right hereâ€. Over time the software could be tweaked to the point that it could very well spot the hacker quicker than observation or demo recording.
Re: Aim bots and such things
xyster, Thu May 14 2009, 09:14PM
bver. i am always impressed with your point of view and detail. these are very good points.
as for the FBI... they can suck my nuts along with the hackers.
ReSpek mY aUtHoRiTY!!!
xyster, Thu May 14 2009, 09:14PM
bver. i am always impressed with your point of view and detail. these are very good points.
as for the FBI... they can suck my nuts along with the hackers.
ReSpek mY aUtHoRiTY!!!
Re: Aim bots and such things
LadyHellfire*, Thu May 14 2009, 09:15PM
I think you missed the main point...
A "hacker" is someone who uses a modified version of the app (code is altered), or an addendum to the app (added code). Not use of exploits, not modification of the gaming machine, etc. The variations of code alterations/additions are over a dozen (and I may be severely under estimating with that number). Some are harder to mask the use of, while others are easy enough to use with a smaller chance of being caught (subtler difference in game play form non-hack) that a complete moron can adequately hide the use of such code alteration/addition.
Take another approach: Open an island where people can come to actively be serial killers. Who would show for such a thing? The ones who would show are already (relatively) easy to catch. Ditto for UrT (or gaming in general) hackers.
Doing what you suggest would merely accomplish one thing: you might gain a nice delusion of having fought the hackers, and thus feel a little more ease while playing elsewhere. Or, it could greatly increase your suspicions, possibly to the point that ANY player that pwns you would be suspect. Coincidence and skill would become a death sentence to all.
Obsessing on this will only be damaging to yourself. Trust me.. I have been down this path, and like a junkie seeing someone who is obviously high, the temptation to return to that path are never ending.
Wanna create an anti-hack? Simple. Provide a method to verify the app itself (first), and then a way to verify additional code pieces are not being employed. And then a way to verify other/alternate pieces are not being deployed AFTER joining. And then a minute later. And so on. And so on. And then a way to be sure that those pieces are not being masked somehow.
Good luck!
LadyHellfire*, Thu May 14 2009, 09:15PM
I think you missed the main point...
A "hacker" is someone who uses a modified version of the app (code is altered), or an addendum to the app (added code). Not use of exploits, not modification of the gaming machine, etc. The variations of code alterations/additions are over a dozen (and I may be severely under estimating with that number). Some are harder to mask the use of, while others are easy enough to use with a smaller chance of being caught (subtler difference in game play form non-hack) that a complete moron can adequately hide the use of such code alteration/addition.
Take another approach: Open an island where people can come to actively be serial killers. Who would show for such a thing? The ones who would show are already (relatively) easy to catch. Ditto for UrT (or gaming in general) hackers.
Doing what you suggest would merely accomplish one thing: you might gain a nice delusion of having fought the hackers, and thus feel a little more ease while playing elsewhere. Or, it could greatly increase your suspicions, possibly to the point that ANY player that pwns you would be suspect. Coincidence and skill would become a death sentence to all.
Obsessing on this will only be damaging to yourself. Trust me.. I have been down this path, and like a junkie seeing someone who is obviously high, the temptation to return to that path are never ending.
Wanna create an anti-hack? Simple. Provide a method to verify the app itself (first), and then a way to verify additional code pieces are not being employed. And then a way to verify other/alternate pieces are not being deployed AFTER joining. And then a minute later. And so on. And so on. And then a way to be sure that those pieces are not being masked somehow.
Good luck!
Re: Aim bots and such things
Littlefoot, Thu May 14 2009, 09:25PM
MadMan...I understand your reasoning and actually spent some time today contemplating this very subject. As I was driving home from work I was thinking "why do I have such an hatred for people who choose to manipulate the code of the game to give themselves an advantage over other players?" These people are actually quite genius on some level...just need to focus their attention on something more productive. I like to think humans are naturally "good" and "learn" to be "bad". And I think, what if I were a soldier (am an ex-soldier) in an urban environment and I had the electronic means to automatically point my weapon in the direction of the enemy (aimbot) and/or was able to see through walls to know where a potential enemy was hiding? That would give me an advantage which could save my life...in a real life combat situation. And I encourage the young minds full of mush to bring this technology to the forefront of reality....
But I play this game to escape reality and, as such, want it to be as realistic as possible!!!! I don't want anyone looking at me through walls and having their weapon's muzzle head high when I come around the corner with plenty of rounds discharging to take me out and anyone that might have their nose up my butt! That just doesn't appeal to me in a game. And I don't need a wall hack to use while previewing a demo to tell me when one is being used (there are tools built into the game which give you the ability to see through walls during a demo...most veterans of the game know what those tools are and how to use them). So the fact that you are using a wall hack to preview demos leads me to question your purity of gaming. You are on a very slippery slope...the fact that you have a hack installed can easily lead to you using it in a server, if you aren't already. The temptation is too great. You're tired one day, you're getting pwnd and frustrated as a result, let's turn the hax on and turn the tables on our tormentor. Nobody will know, there is no anti-cheat to stop me, it'll only be for a couple of minutes, until I get my frustration under control...it's like a drug man, once you go down that road there is no going back, until you either burn out or die!!!
As far as the definition of Asshat: I'm reminded of an episode of "That 70's Show", Red tells Eric he's going to turn his ass into a hat. I think, by that analogy, an asshat can be defined as an asshole since it would be the hole that slips over your head to form a hat :)
But seriously, cheaters cheat because they have low self esteem and cheating gives them a sense of false superiority thereby temporarily boosting their self esteem...until the "high" from the rush wears off. Then they have to do it all over again...see what I mean about being like a drug? So setting up a server which caters to a bunch whiny cry babies that have to cheat to make themselves feel better....pffffft, I don't think so, Tim.
Littlefoot, Thu May 14 2009, 09:25PM
MadMan...I understand your reasoning and actually spent some time today contemplating this very subject. As I was driving home from work I was thinking "why do I have such an hatred for people who choose to manipulate the code of the game to give themselves an advantage over other players?" These people are actually quite genius on some level...just need to focus their attention on something more productive. I like to think humans are naturally "good" and "learn" to be "bad". And I think, what if I were a soldier (am an ex-soldier) in an urban environment and I had the electronic means to automatically point my weapon in the direction of the enemy (aimbot) and/or was able to see through walls to know where a potential enemy was hiding? That would give me an advantage which could save my life...in a real life combat situation. And I encourage the young minds full of mush to bring this technology to the forefront of reality....
But I play this game to escape reality and, as such, want it to be as realistic as possible!!!! I don't want anyone looking at me through walls and having their weapon's muzzle head high when I come around the corner with plenty of rounds discharging to take me out and anyone that might have their nose up my butt! That just doesn't appeal to me in a game. And I don't need a wall hack to use while previewing a demo to tell me when one is being used (there are tools built into the game which give you the ability to see through walls during a demo...most veterans of the game know what those tools are and how to use them). So the fact that you are using a wall hack to preview demos leads me to question your purity of gaming. You are on a very slippery slope...the fact that you have a hack installed can easily lead to you using it in a server, if you aren't already. The temptation is too great. You're tired one day, you're getting pwnd and frustrated as a result, let's turn the hax on and turn the tables on our tormentor. Nobody will know, there is no anti-cheat to stop me, it'll only be for a couple of minutes, until I get my frustration under control...it's like a drug man, once you go down that road there is no going back, until you either burn out or die!!!
As far as the definition of Asshat: I'm reminded of an episode of "That 70's Show", Red tells Eric he's going to turn his ass into a hat. I think, by that analogy, an asshat can be defined as an asshole since it would be the hole that slips over your head to form a hat :)
But seriously, cheaters cheat because they have low self esteem and cheating gives them a sense of false superiority thereby temporarily boosting their self esteem...until the "high" from the rush wears off. Then they have to do it all over again...see what I mean about being like a drug? So setting up a server which caters to a bunch whiny cry babies that have to cheat to make themselves feel better....pffffft, I don't think so, Tim.
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 11:27PM
Hay Littlefoot I can assure you that I have no interest on using any type of bot on line. I’ve been playing on-line since the days of Q2 and I’ve had my ups and downs and I know that if I had a crappy round that situation can change in the next. To me its just a game of distraction and not a life style where winning is job one.
As for the bot being installed it is only installed IF you hook it in before you load in the main program and I’ve only used it against bots to see how they operate. You can watch all the demos you wish but it just does not replace hands on with the code.
As you said there is a kind of brilliance to how the code works and one of the things I’m looking into is to see if I can trap the code stream and see if there is anything useful. Obviously it’s been done.
B-Ver I don’t think I missed the point but do think that we are talking two separate approaches to the same idea.
Your suggesting that no one should give it a go because of probability rather I say why not since it something that has never been done before.
You are relating to a practical approach that involves risk by those that have much more to loss than someone playing around with in a digital world that are more likely bored and willing to try something different or unusual. Such a server would be attractive for no other reason than there is nothing to loss. It’s a button that has to be pushed just to see what happens and one can always rely on the mob mentality.
I mean honestly its not like the aim bot or the wall hack is something new and has been around since Q2 and the same things about the situation then are the same things being talked about today base on assumptions on why someone feels the need to cheat in a digital world in the first place. The only real difference is people now a day seems to accept their involvement as part of the game as an element.
We are still assuming that they do so based on more common real world examples, as that is all we have to relate to yet I’ve yet to see a proper study done that explains why someone who is an outstanding citizen in the real world would cheat on line even in the world of Second Life.
That being said my obsession is not with catching the hacker but rather understanding the code. What you see is the result of digitally manipulated numbers with in a construct and one of the questions I’m asking myself does the code generate a repeating pattern similar to a fingerprint that repeats its self each time a command is executed. I’m trying to figure out the Matrix and not why someone would cheat.
For example if an aim bot is toggled on and off it will still need to be turned on to acquire the target, hold, fire, and then release. If we are looking at this from a graph mathematical standpoint that sequence would show up as a unique fingerprint the first time it is used. If used a second time the figure print would be almost identical in nature which is not imposable but improbable. Used a third time with out any variations then it’s a bot.
This fact can only be proven out by comparing it to a know test benchmark such as the data from a Black Hat server and if the pattern matches through thousands of variations as compared to the fingerprint of a skilled player, which should have a randomness to the bot print, then even the “most†skilled cheat can be spotted as the data is more accurate than the eye could ever be.
What you see is not the same way the computer sees things. At 1/100 of a frame you can not see the a variation in time that on the surface may look different but in terms of recorded, and graphed data, based on the millisecond the software can spot a process occurring very easily.
This is not a “delusion of having fought the hackers†but rather a practical approach to solving a problem, is it?, using science with in an environment where such a solution to a problem can also have other practical applications. As an ex-programmer I’m just surprised after all these years someone else has not picked up the challenge.
In my minds eye they are just another element of the game and I simple would like to go after them for the same reasons I would go after another player while carrying an 8. ;) It’s my Kung Fu against theirs.
As for the client handling the anti-cheat its already been done and does not work worth a dam. This was what Punk Buster was suppose to do but it never made any sense to me how something that is to be secured and guarded was giveen to the very people who now had the means to figure out how to work around it. It’s so worthless I have yet to see anyone on the Q3 server side of things still using it except for a handful of servers.
In the end though I just find it an interesting subject and 6 or so years ago if one even mentioned “bot†they would be shaked and baked. Sorry for going on but after all this is the rant section. :)
MadMan_X, Thu May 14 2009, 11:27PM
Hay Littlefoot I can assure you that I have no interest on using any type of bot on line. I’ve been playing on-line since the days of Q2 and I’ve had my ups and downs and I know that if I had a crappy round that situation can change in the next. To me its just a game of distraction and not a life style where winning is job one.
As for the bot being installed it is only installed IF you hook it in before you load in the main program and I’ve only used it against bots to see how they operate. You can watch all the demos you wish but it just does not replace hands on with the code.
As you said there is a kind of brilliance to how the code works and one of the things I’m looking into is to see if I can trap the code stream and see if there is anything useful. Obviously it’s been done.
B-Ver I don’t think I missed the point but do think that we are talking two separate approaches to the same idea.
Your suggesting that no one should give it a go because of probability rather I say why not since it something that has never been done before.
You are relating to a practical approach that involves risk by those that have much more to loss than someone playing around with in a digital world that are more likely bored and willing to try something different or unusual. Such a server would be attractive for no other reason than there is nothing to loss. It’s a button that has to be pushed just to see what happens and one can always rely on the mob mentality.
I mean honestly its not like the aim bot or the wall hack is something new and has been around since Q2 and the same things about the situation then are the same things being talked about today base on assumptions on why someone feels the need to cheat in a digital world in the first place. The only real difference is people now a day seems to accept their involvement as part of the game as an element.
We are still assuming that they do so based on more common real world examples, as that is all we have to relate to yet I’ve yet to see a proper study done that explains why someone who is an outstanding citizen in the real world would cheat on line even in the world of Second Life.
That being said my obsession is not with catching the hacker but rather understanding the code. What you see is the result of digitally manipulated numbers with in a construct and one of the questions I’m asking myself does the code generate a repeating pattern similar to a fingerprint that repeats its self each time a command is executed. I’m trying to figure out the Matrix and not why someone would cheat.
For example if an aim bot is toggled on and off it will still need to be turned on to acquire the target, hold, fire, and then release. If we are looking at this from a graph mathematical standpoint that sequence would show up as a unique fingerprint the first time it is used. If used a second time the figure print would be almost identical in nature which is not imposable but improbable. Used a third time with out any variations then it’s a bot.
This fact can only be proven out by comparing it to a know test benchmark such as the data from a Black Hat server and if the pattern matches through thousands of variations as compared to the fingerprint of a skilled player, which should have a randomness to the bot print, then even the “most†skilled cheat can be spotted as the data is more accurate than the eye could ever be.
What you see is not the same way the computer sees things. At 1/100 of a frame you can not see the a variation in time that on the surface may look different but in terms of recorded, and graphed data, based on the millisecond the software can spot a process occurring very easily.
This is not a “delusion of having fought the hackers†but rather a practical approach to solving a problem, is it?, using science with in an environment where such a solution to a problem can also have other practical applications. As an ex-programmer I’m just surprised after all these years someone else has not picked up the challenge.
In my minds eye they are just another element of the game and I simple would like to go after them for the same reasons I would go after another player while carrying an 8. ;) It’s my Kung Fu against theirs.
As for the client handling the anti-cheat its already been done and does not work worth a dam. This was what Punk Buster was suppose to do but it never made any sense to me how something that is to be secured and guarded was giveen to the very people who now had the means to figure out how to work around it. It’s so worthless I have yet to see anyone on the Q3 server side of things still using it except for a handful of servers.
In the end though I just find it an interesting subject and 6 or so years ago if one even mentioned “bot†they would be shaked and baked. Sorry for going on but after all this is the rant section. :)
Re: Aim bots and such things
Tranc3r, Thu May 14 2009, 11:27PM
I would say this wouldn't be a bad idea... although the hacker turn out might be low, you can at least get their IP and ban them from other servers, like for example: I have the 'Black Hat' server and a 'normal' server running, I see a hacker at 'Black Hat' server, I would get his IP and since I wouldn't want him in my 'normal' server, I would IP ban him from the 'normal' so if he came behind the admin's back, he wouldn't be able to join the server an ruin the fun. So it's like, once you are caught in any 'Black Hat' server you're banned. Sort of like UAA, but this time it's not part the Chain, although I think it should be.
The 'Black Hat' server could just be a trap server I would say.
Like b-ver said, there are different meanings of hacking, we just need to cancel out everything so it's just for what Players think shouldn't be allowed in-game.
Like:
-Aim botting
-Wall hacking
Those are the only two that I think is considered 'cheating' in Urban Terror.
Just a thought.
Tranc3r, Thu May 14 2009, 11:27PM
I would say this wouldn't be a bad idea... although the hacker turn out might be low, you can at least get their IP and ban them from other servers, like for example: I have the 'Black Hat' server and a 'normal' server running, I see a hacker at 'Black Hat' server, I would get his IP and since I wouldn't want him in my 'normal' server, I would IP ban him from the 'normal' so if he came behind the admin's back, he wouldn't be able to join the server an ruin the fun. So it's like, once you are caught in any 'Black Hat' server you're banned. Sort of like UAA, but this time it's not part the Chain, although I think it should be.
The 'Black Hat' server could just be a trap server I would say.
Like b-ver said, there are different meanings of hacking, we just need to cancel out everything so it's just for what Players think shouldn't be allowed in-game.
Like:
-Aim botting
-Wall hacking
Those are the only two that I think is considered 'cheating' in Urban Terror.
Just a thought.
Re: Aim bots and such things
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 12:35AM
If your only interest is to review the data of hacks in use.. dedicate a machine or partition to it, create your own network situation, and then conduct your tests. But, you must have the background/knowledge for any of that to make a difference.
So, say you now have your info. You have collected every single known hack for UrT, employed them in various ways, and you have data and the knowledge and ability to code up a manner of "catching" any hacker, regardless of method of use. Even the most ingenious hack user will need to utilize basic methods, as you stated: turn it on, turn it off, utilize what the hack offers as benefit. And you produce a "net" with which to catch the butterflies. To send them tot he cornfield.
Fast forward a month. Peabody Wetmore III has Daddy's sympathy for Mommy's neglect, and has spent HIS time getting back at all the douchebag frackers in the world that have destroyed his happy place, and now you come along and try to prevent his malice from being spread through the use of hacks. And now a counter-measure to your counter-measure is out there.
Ahhh! Time to download all the hacks, try the new counter-counter-measures along with them, and create a new Borg-like technology that will produce variations.. randomizing things just enough that liitle Master Wetmore's efforts are for naught!
Peabody is quite pissed now. Now you have done it.
Oh, pfft. It isn't worth it...
If you can figure out a way to "proof" player's as they join, and while playing, and in such a way that it does not alter the game's experience one iota.. well.. WOW. It would be nothing short of miraculous. Please do not get me wrong- I am not saying it cannot be done. I am saying it is improbable that someone will come up with something that is foolproof.
It can be reduced. I find that less improbable. I think it unlikely that anything will prevent the truly skilled user of hacks. Someone who incorporates the radar hack for instance... difficult to point an assured finger. There are telltale signs.. dead giveaways. But, it is subjective at best!
Like I said.. it would have to be something that identifies ANY variation in the collective code ON the END USER's computer. Anything else is a temporary measure at best.
I admire the zeal! I would love to see you succeed. But please- do not EVER use a hack on your actual online gaming machine. Even unused, it is WRONG, period. It is like holding a stolen kidney, even if you do not intend to sell or use it yourself.
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 12:35AM
If your only interest is to review the data of hacks in use.. dedicate a machine or partition to it, create your own network situation, and then conduct your tests. But, you must have the background/knowledge for any of that to make a difference.
So, say you now have your info. You have collected every single known hack for UrT, employed them in various ways, and you have data and the knowledge and ability to code up a manner of "catching" any hacker, regardless of method of use. Even the most ingenious hack user will need to utilize basic methods, as you stated: turn it on, turn it off, utilize what the hack offers as benefit. And you produce a "net" with which to catch the butterflies. To send them tot he cornfield.
Fast forward a month. Peabody Wetmore III has Daddy's sympathy for Mommy's neglect, and has spent HIS time getting back at all the douchebag frackers in the world that have destroyed his happy place, and now you come along and try to prevent his malice from being spread through the use of hacks. And now a counter-measure to your counter-measure is out there.
Ahhh! Time to download all the hacks, try the new counter-counter-measures along with them, and create a new Borg-like technology that will produce variations.. randomizing things just enough that liitle Master Wetmore's efforts are for naught!
Peabody is quite pissed now. Now you have done it.
Oh, pfft. It isn't worth it...
If you can figure out a way to "proof" player's as they join, and while playing, and in such a way that it does not alter the game's experience one iota.. well.. WOW. It would be nothing short of miraculous. Please do not get me wrong- I am not saying it cannot be done. I am saying it is improbable that someone will come up with something that is foolproof.
It can be reduced. I find that less improbable. I think it unlikely that anything will prevent the truly skilled user of hacks. Someone who incorporates the radar hack for instance... difficult to point an assured finger. There are telltale signs.. dead giveaways. But, it is subjective at best!
Like I said.. it would have to be something that identifies ANY variation in the collective code ON the END USER's computer. Anything else is a temporary measure at best.
I admire the zeal! I would love to see you succeed. But please- do not EVER use a hack on your actual online gaming machine. Even unused, it is WRONG, period. It is like holding a stolen kidney, even if you do not intend to sell or use it yourself.
Re: Aim bots and such things
BatMann, Fri May 15 2009, 12:38AM
i say do it run a bot sting log ips and names and ban them all
BatMann, Fri May 15 2009, 12:38AM
i say do it run a bot sting log ips and names and ban them all
Re: Aim bots and such things
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 12:49AM
@Trancer:
Those are just two of many.
A hack is any piece of ancillary code, whether as a replacement, or outright replacement of the actual code, with intent to provide advantage that would not be possible without "legal," existing code. An exploit is identifying a manner in which the existing code can be manipulated through the .cfg (supposedly against the intentions of the people who coded the app), or some manner of altering the hardware (such as painting a dot on the monitor screen and using an SR8 no-scoped). Hacks are "illegal" and heinous. Exploits are.. many things ;) Some are hilarious, some annoying, and some are agreeably not to be utilized (dishonorable).
Aimbot. Radar. Mombot. Variable hit. Even if I were to list the hacks I have been made aware of, there would be a longer list in the future. There will be refined versions of them. Anything to afford the user of such hacks with an ability to elude and outperform. Not getting caught seems to be as much a part fo the hacking experience now as simply using a damn hack. The game is given a new dimension to these people. Becoming adept at jumping, shooting.. bettering tactics and strategies, singularly and with a team.. these all become bland and passe, and now the true test of ability becomes being able to infiltrate and maintain a disguise of fair play. Of course, the urge to top the pack will eventually take them over. These are weak people. And being top of the pack garners attention.
When checkers is boring and chess too much of a challenge; when the simple act of enjoying the game, win or lose on a fair table, is lost.. Unfortunately, it drives some of us away. Some of us do not care about #1, but rather the simple joy and thrill; the social "oneness." Of not being alone. Of helping others, whether it is accompanying them with a flag, or being there when they need a shoulder to cry on.
The hacker is a weak, lonely, sad person. No game they play is ever won. The lowest scoring, "Wooden Spoon" awarded player is still a better player; not in rating, but in stature, and is likely to have more willing friends at his/her side.
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 12:49AM
@Trancer:
Those are just two of many.
A hack is any piece of ancillary code, whether as a replacement, or outright replacement of the actual code, with intent to provide advantage that would not be possible without "legal," existing code. An exploit is identifying a manner in which the existing code can be manipulated through the .cfg (supposedly against the intentions of the people who coded the app), or some manner of altering the hardware (such as painting a dot on the monitor screen and using an SR8 no-scoped). Hacks are "illegal" and heinous. Exploits are.. many things ;) Some are hilarious, some annoying, and some are agreeably not to be utilized (dishonorable).
Aimbot. Radar. Mombot. Variable hit. Even if I were to list the hacks I have been made aware of, there would be a longer list in the future. There will be refined versions of them. Anything to afford the user of such hacks with an ability to elude and outperform. Not getting caught seems to be as much a part fo the hacking experience now as simply using a damn hack. The game is given a new dimension to these people. Becoming adept at jumping, shooting.. bettering tactics and strategies, singularly and with a team.. these all become bland and passe, and now the true test of ability becomes being able to infiltrate and maintain a disguise of fair play. Of course, the urge to top the pack will eventually take them over. These are weak people. And being top of the pack garners attention.
When checkers is boring and chess too much of a challenge; when the simple act of enjoying the game, win or lose on a fair table, is lost.. Unfortunately, it drives some of us away. Some of us do not care about #1, but rather the simple joy and thrill; the social "oneness." Of not being alone. Of helping others, whether it is accompanying them with a flag, or being there when they need a shoulder to cry on.
The hacker is a weak, lonely, sad person. No game they play is ever won. The lowest scoring, "Wooden Spoon" awarded player is still a better player; not in rating, but in stature, and is likely to have more willing friends at his/her side.
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 01:50AM
First using a honey pot for anything else than gathering data is a bad idea simply because the word will get out and you will loss access to a means to monitor behavior. The ability to monitor behavior is something that has never been tried in a formal way and is more important than using it to ban players.
I hate to be the one to bring it up but banning is not really a means of preventing someone from simply renewing their IP and it’s also not that difficult to spoof an IP address. Besides I don’t think the cheater really cares if they get banned one way or another.
As for what is and what is not a cheat I would say in my opinion anything that comes stock in the box is in general acceptable. As long as everyone at any given time has the same advantages as others who are playing the game then it is really up to the individual to learn how to take advantage of the environment with in the confines of the game design.
On the other hand “bolting†on additional features is an outright circumvention of the software design and I would consider an addition instead of a practical use of the application, scripting included, to be an out right cheat.
After that it is at the grace and rules of the server operator that one needs to abide by and the rules of that community. If the operator decides that spawn killing or camping is acceptable, adapted, then that’s their right. The same right also applies if the operator decides that the use of bots are ok and if one is wearing a funny hat will get you banned then so be it. It’s their house and really is the only one qualified to make that decision.
“The hacker is a weak, lonely, sad person. No game they play is ever won. The lowest scoring, "Wooden Spoon" awarded player is still a better player; not in rating, but in stature, and is likely to have more willing friends at his/her side.â€
Not to be picky but is this a known fact or an assumption?
I’ve checked out some of the message boards that these so called sad hackers hang out at and they don’t seem to overly sad to me. I’m no expert but I think they actually enjoy cheating for the same reasons we enjoy playing the game straight. Just a though but the next time someone shows up with a bot why not ask them why they feel the need to use one in the first place instead of demoing them and then banning. It would be intresting to see what their response would be.
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 01:50AM
First using a honey pot for anything else than gathering data is a bad idea simply because the word will get out and you will loss access to a means to monitor behavior. The ability to monitor behavior is something that has never been tried in a formal way and is more important than using it to ban players.
I hate to be the one to bring it up but banning is not really a means of preventing someone from simply renewing their IP and it’s also not that difficult to spoof an IP address. Besides I don’t think the cheater really cares if they get banned one way or another.
As for what is and what is not a cheat I would say in my opinion anything that comes stock in the box is in general acceptable. As long as everyone at any given time has the same advantages as others who are playing the game then it is really up to the individual to learn how to take advantage of the environment with in the confines of the game design.
On the other hand “bolting†on additional features is an outright circumvention of the software design and I would consider an addition instead of a practical use of the application, scripting included, to be an out right cheat.
After that it is at the grace and rules of the server operator that one needs to abide by and the rules of that community. If the operator decides that spawn killing or camping is acceptable, adapted, then that’s their right. The same right also applies if the operator decides that the use of bots are ok and if one is wearing a funny hat will get you banned then so be it. It’s their house and really is the only one qualified to make that decision.
“The hacker is a weak, lonely, sad person. No game they play is ever won. The lowest scoring, "Wooden Spoon" awarded player is still a better player; not in rating, but in stature, and is likely to have more willing friends at his/her side.â€
Not to be picky but is this a known fact or an assumption?
I’ve checked out some of the message boards that these so called sad hackers hang out at and they don’t seem to overly sad to me. I’m no expert but I think they actually enjoy cheating for the same reasons we enjoy playing the game straight. Just a though but the next time someone shows up with a bot why not ask them why they feel the need to use one in the first place instead of demoing them and then banning. It would be intresting to see what their response would be.
Re: Aim bots and such things
mindriot, Fri May 15 2009, 02:26AM
actually, i have politely asked why. the typical responses are "to pwn you", "your mom's a whore", "go f*ck yourself" or some other ingenious combination of the three. that's like asking a bully why he beats your ass just before he does. 1) power, and 2) because he can.
this is an interesting discussion, but i have lost my curiosity as to why asshats are asshats and hackers are hackers. i just do what i can to keep the superman server clear of them. that's more than enough of a time commitment for me.
mindriot, Fri May 15 2009, 02:26AM
MadMan_X
Just a though but the next time someone shows up with a bot why not ask them why they feel the need to use one in the first place instead of demoing them and then banning. It would be intresting to see what their response would be.
actually, i have politely asked why. the typical responses are "to pwn you", "your mom's a whore", "go f*ck yourself" or some other ingenious combination of the three. that's like asking a bully why he beats your ass just before he does. 1) power, and 2) because he can.
this is an interesting discussion, but i have lost my curiosity as to why asshats are asshats and hackers are hackers. i just do what i can to keep the superman server clear of them. that's more than enough of a time commitment for me.
Re: Aim bots and such things
gHOstFaCe, Fri May 15 2009, 09:24AM
I'm sure this is an interesting thread, but once I saw the multiple paragraph posts, I quit reading, lol.
IMO, hacker either hack to piss off and annoy other players, or to try and compete against better players. Therefore, I think they would still go to all of the regular servers to hack, otherwise it defeats the purpose.
And yes, aimbots can be mathmatically calculated. I know for a fact that the formula FIREKILLER uses is, "Shot me once + I die = AIMBOT"
gHOstFaCe, Fri May 15 2009, 09:24AM
I'm sure this is an interesting thread, but once I saw the multiple paragraph posts, I quit reading, lol.
IMO, hacker either hack to piss off and annoy other players, or to try and compete against better players. Therefore, I think they would still go to all of the regular servers to hack, otherwise it defeats the purpose.
And yes, aimbots can be mathmatically calculated. I know for a fact that the formula FIREKILLER uses is, "Shot me once + I die = AIMBOT"
Re: Aim bots and such things
Mcflurry, Fri May 15 2009, 10:08AM
It would be like being in a poker game and the same guy gets a royal flush every time. Everybody knows he's cheating and all the legit players will stop wasting their time playing. What if everyone gets a royal flush every time? Makes the game kinda pointless.
Mcflurry, Fri May 15 2009, 10:08AM
It would be like being in a poker game and the same guy gets a royal flush every time. Everybody knows he's cheating and all the legit players will stop wasting their time playing. What if everyone gets a royal flush every time? Makes the game kinda pointless.
Re: Aim bots and such things
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 11:34AM
Now that I look back.. this whole thing is stupid, period.
As to the comment- I do not need ot prove it as fact. Defend them if you will. It is my opinion, and it stands. the hacker is a sad person. No self-confidence. Chest-pumping bravado in the hopes he won't get called on it. Weak minds, weak will.
Got the means to sift through the digital communication between user and server? To decipher everything and figure a manner to police? Contact the UAA. Go to their website and forums, and post your ideas. Join a team and actually DO SOMETHING.
In reviewing this thread, the fact that you downloaded and used a hack = KICK BAN. No excuses, no tolerance. If you never used it on your online gaming machine while online.. cool. Delete it, or go to UAA and get involved. The FSK405 forums are NOT the place for this, and they a NOT the place for discussing this.
If you do not have the means to do as you say you want to, then you are the equivalent of a hacker. PERIOD. Download a hack, use it for ONE SECOND on a public server = HACKER.
Contact UAA. Post on their forums.
HACKING IS NOT TOLERATED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM ON FSK405 SERVERS. PERIOD, END OF SENTENCE.
Mods- lock this ridiculous thread please?
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 11:34AM
Now that I look back.. this whole thing is stupid, period.
As to the comment- I do not need ot prove it as fact. Defend them if you will. It is my opinion, and it stands. the hacker is a sad person. No self-confidence. Chest-pumping bravado in the hopes he won't get called on it. Weak minds, weak will.
Got the means to sift through the digital communication between user and server? To decipher everything and figure a manner to police? Contact the UAA. Go to their website and forums, and post your ideas. Join a team and actually DO SOMETHING.
In reviewing this thread, the fact that you downloaded and used a hack = KICK BAN. No excuses, no tolerance. If you never used it on your online gaming machine while online.. cool. Delete it, or go to UAA and get involved. The FSK405 forums are NOT the place for this, and they a NOT the place for discussing this.
If you do not have the means to do as you say you want to, then you are the equivalent of a hacker. PERIOD. Download a hack, use it for ONE SECOND on a public server = HACKER.
Contact UAA. Post on their forums.
HACKING IS NOT TOLERATED IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM ON FSK405 SERVERS. PERIOD, END OF SENTENCE.
Mods- lock this ridiculous thread please?
Re: Aim bots and such things
gHOstFaCe, Fri May 15 2009, 01:18PM
/me High fives B-Ver and says Whoop there it is!
gHOstFaCe, Fri May 15 2009, 01:18PM
/me High fives B-Ver and says Whoop there it is!
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 02:09PM
Ah ok sorry I did not realize that there was an organization already available that was already involved in something that I’m interested in getting involved with. I apologize for any disruptions I might have caused but hay this the rant section after all right. :)
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 02:09PM
B-Ver
Got the means to sift through the digital communication between user and server? To decipher everything and figure a manner to police? Contact the UAA. Go to their website and forums, and post your ideas. Join a team and actually DO SOMETHING.
Ah ok sorry I did not realize that there was an organization already available that was already involved in something that I’m interested in getting involved with. I apologize for any disruptions I might have caused but hay this the rant section after all right. :)
Re: Aim bots and such things
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 04:07PM
cool- UAA is a great group!
LadyHellfire*, Fri May 15 2009, 04:07PM
cool- UAA is a great group!
Re: Aim bots and such things
Littlefoot, Fri May 15 2009, 06:23PM
I find it a very interesting discussion, but alas, my head is about to explode!!! So I'm gonna go shoot some bishes and cap some flags. MadMan, I truly hope you forward this discussion into the UAA forums and become an active member there...maybe even one of the reviewers of demos.
Littlefoot, Fri May 15 2009, 06:23PM
I find it a very interesting discussion, but alas, my head is about to explode!!! So I'm gonna go shoot some bishes and cap some flags. MadMan, I truly hope you forward this discussion into the UAA forums and become an active member there...maybe even one of the reviewers of demos.
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 07:29PM
I glad you found it all interesting Littlefoot and I’ve already started to make an attempt to see if there is anyone interested in the idea. If I there is no interest there then I do have a few contacts at a couple of places where I already have street credit but I’m not sure this would be a project that they would be interested in.
Just to clear things up a bit I do use the bot only on my laptop and not on my main system. It’s just nuts to use anything, bot hack or other wise, from a community that simply cannot be trusted in the first place. It’s designed to be a hack and as far as hackers go we know that they who designed the program could very well add more viral types of code.
As well I’m not concerned about the obvious cheat or why they do it, they might as well have a big L painted on their forehead, but I am interested if it’s possible to detect using software and data analysis to catch the Uber cheat who’s only goal is not to get caught.
Even then I’m thinking cheat detection and being able to analyze as well as predict human interaction with in a digital world has some other applications that it could be applied to.
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 07:29PM
I glad you found it all interesting Littlefoot and I’ve already started to make an attempt to see if there is anyone interested in the idea. If I there is no interest there then I do have a few contacts at a couple of places where I already have street credit but I’m not sure this would be a project that they would be interested in.
Just to clear things up a bit I do use the bot only on my laptop and not on my main system. It’s just nuts to use anything, bot hack or other wise, from a community that simply cannot be trusted in the first place. It’s designed to be a hack and as far as hackers go we know that they who designed the program could very well add more viral types of code.
As well I’m not concerned about the obvious cheat or why they do it, they might as well have a big L painted on their forehead, but I am interested if it’s possible to detect using software and data analysis to catch the Uber cheat who’s only goal is not to get caught.
Even then I’m thinking cheat detection and being able to analyze as well as predict human interaction with in a digital world has some other applications that it could be applied to.
Re: Aim bots and such things
Boogie Knight, Fri May 15 2009, 07:57PM
I believe that players hack because of their own inadequecy (sp?) and frustration. Kinda like the guy who will roll a sock up and put it in his pants before going out.
Boogie Knight, Fri May 15 2009, 07:57PM
I believe that players hack because of their own inadequecy (sp?) and frustration. Kinda like the guy who will roll a sock up and put it in his pants before going out.
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 08:53PM
Well at last count there is, according to the UAA, over 16 million who have been banned. I can’t see that may people just out to shove a sock down their pants. ;)
Boy that’s a big number.
I think they simply cheat because they have means and opportunity to do so with in an environment that has little or no consequences to take responsibility for their actions.
Cheats maybe but probably just a different form of being an asshat. As some stated they are just out to piss people off and in this case the “gamer†that is about playing the game.
What I find interesting though is the reaction by administrators when one does show up. They warn them, again and again, then they slap them around for a while before baning them for a few hours.
Makes me wonder if this is the type of attention they are looking for?
MadMan_X, Fri May 15 2009, 08:53PM
Well at last count there is, according to the UAA, over 16 million who have been banned. I can’t see that may people just out to shove a sock down their pants. ;)
Boy that’s a big number.
I think they simply cheat because they have means and opportunity to do so with in an environment that has little or no consequences to take responsibility for their actions.
Cheats maybe but probably just a different form of being an asshat. As some stated they are just out to piss people off and in this case the “gamer†that is about playing the game.
What I find interesting though is the reaction by administrators when one does show up. They warn them, again and again, then they slap them around for a while before baning them for a few hours.
Makes me wonder if this is the type of attention they are looking for?
Re: Aim bots and such things
Boogie Knight, Sat May 16 2009, 07:41AM
People cheat because they either don't want to take the time to develop their own skills or they have tried to do that but have given up. It's easier and maybe they're just lazy or they assume that everyone else cheats so thay might as well.
I don't think you have played on servers with b3 for very long or understand how they work. Most admins on the superman server do not have the ability to slap or nuke someone. they can record a demo and submit it to upper level admins to review and if they agree, then THEY will permanently ban them. If the lower level admins are 100% percent convinced while observing a bot or hack, and they have the authority, THEN they can ban for up to 3 hours. We depend on the higher admins for permaban. They depend on us to observe and report. That's how it works.
It seems that you want this thread to continue after Beav called for it to be locked.
Boogie Knight, Sat May 16 2009, 07:41AM
People cheat because they either don't want to take the time to develop their own skills or they have tried to do that but have given up. It's easier and maybe they're just lazy or they assume that everyone else cheats so thay might as well.
I don't think you have played on servers with b3 for very long or understand how they work. Most admins on the superman server do not have the ability to slap or nuke someone. they can record a demo and submit it to upper level admins to review and if they agree, then THEY will permanently ban them. If the lower level admins are 100% percent convinced while observing a bot or hack, and they have the authority, THEN they can ban for up to 3 hours. We depend on the higher admins for permaban. They depend on us to observe and report. That's how it works.
It seems that you want this thread to continue after Beav called for it to be locked.
Re: Aim bots and such things
MadMan_X, Sat May 16 2009, 02:19PM
Well actually this topic is continuing because people are still posting to it. Granted it’s probably a hot topic of discussion but this is the “rant†section after all.
As for Big Brother Bot, which is a hack by definition by the way, sure I understand how it works in a limited fashion based on its feature set but from what I read its abilities to catch a cheat in a timely manner is rather limited.
For the record I’ve over 25 years working in the security industry and it’s not my intention to try and convince anyone that they, the cheat, should be understood but to analyze the type of rewards they gain from such behavior.
Granted I have nothing that supports the idea but I can see they have their own reward verses risk appeal to cheating simply if they are only interested in seeing how long they can get away with it before they are caught.
From my point of view the question is does the very system in place now actually creates the motivation for someone whose way of playing the game is not to get caught? The reward for the pure player is simply to not die and win the game so with in the scope of the community you have a cops verse the robbers situation.
The key to prevention is “timeâ€. The less you rewarded a cheat with game time the more you deny them they very thing they need to fulfill whatever satisfaction they gain from cheating. You take away time and you will never have to ban anyone ever again simply because the majority will just give up.
I’ll make this one last comment and then let it go, unless someone else wises to continue the debate.
If you really want to get rid of these guys then the technology, math, and data is all there to prevent anyone from using an aim bot, a wall hack, or any other form of cheat and with out getting into the technical details I’ve actually seen this type of fuzzy logic work in the real world.
This from just a couple of week’s worth of research and not ignoring the fact that cheating does occur.
MadMan_X, Sat May 16 2009, 02:19PM
Well actually this topic is continuing because people are still posting to it. Granted it’s probably a hot topic of discussion but this is the “rant†section after all.
As for Big Brother Bot, which is a hack by definition by the way, sure I understand how it works in a limited fashion based on its feature set but from what I read its abilities to catch a cheat in a timely manner is rather limited.
For the record I’ve over 25 years working in the security industry and it’s not my intention to try and convince anyone that they, the cheat, should be understood but to analyze the type of rewards they gain from such behavior.
Granted I have nothing that supports the idea but I can see they have their own reward verses risk appeal to cheating simply if they are only interested in seeing how long they can get away with it before they are caught.
From my point of view the question is does the very system in place now actually creates the motivation for someone whose way of playing the game is not to get caught? The reward for the pure player is simply to not die and win the game so with in the scope of the community you have a cops verse the robbers situation.
The key to prevention is “timeâ€. The less you rewarded a cheat with game time the more you deny them they very thing they need to fulfill whatever satisfaction they gain from cheating. You take away time and you will never have to ban anyone ever again simply because the majority will just give up.
I’ll make this one last comment and then let it go, unless someone else wises to continue the debate.
If you really want to get rid of these guys then the technology, math, and data is all there to prevent anyone from using an aim bot, a wall hack, or any other form of cheat and with out getting into the technical details I’ve actually seen this type of fuzzy logic work in the real world.
This from just a couple of week’s worth of research and not ignoring the fact that cheating does occur.
Re: Aim bots and such things
mondjetoe, Tue May 19 2009, 06:13AM
:(
mondjetoe, Tue May 19 2009, 06:13AM
:(
Re: Aim bots and such things
Tranc3r, Tue May 19 2009, 08:37PM
That makes no sense.
Tranc3r, Tue May 19 2009, 08:37PM
That makes no sense.
Re: Aim bots and such things
Mcflurry, Wed May 20 2009, 02:29AM
Mcflurry, Wed May 20 2009, 02:29AM
Re: Aim bots and such things
Squrl, Wed May 20 2009, 04:03PM
thats a good one mcflurry I liked it
Squrl, Wed May 20 2009, 04:03PM
thats a good one mcflurry I liked it
Re: Aim bots and such things
BatMann, Wed May 20 2009, 04:16PM
i loved it
BatMann, Wed May 20 2009, 04:16PM
i loved it
Re: Aim bots and such things
Mcflurry, Thu May 21 2009, 04:00AM
13-37% lol
Mcflurry, Thu May 21 2009, 04:00AM
13-37% lol
Re: Aim bots and such things
Deviant-x, Mon Jun 15 2009, 03:44PM
***New Hack***
(or at least new to me)
Some guy on the superman server had a hack that changed his name ever 6 seconds, it wasnt just team based it was everyone, may i suggest a "fix" for this would be a name change code that would be anyone that changed thier name more then 3 times in 15 seconds would be perm banned?
Deviant-x, Mon Jun 15 2009, 03:44PM
***New Hack***
(or at least new to me)
Some guy on the superman server had a hack that changed his name ever 6 seconds, it wasnt just team based it was everyone, may i suggest a "fix" for this would be a name change code that would be anyone that changed thier name more then 3 times in 15 seconds would be perm banned?
Re: Aim bots and such things
mindriot, Mon Jun 15 2009, 04:40PM
good idea. might already exist for b3. i'll look into it.
mindriot, Mon Jun 15 2009, 04:40PM
Deviant-x
***New Hack***
(or at least new to me)
Some guy on the superman server had a hack that changed his name ever 6 seconds, it wasnt just team based it was everyone, may i suggest a "fix" for this would be a name change code that would be anyone that changed thier name more then 3 times in 15 seconds would be perm banned?
good idea. might already exist for b3. i'll look into it.
Re: Aim bots and such things
Mcflurry, Tue Jun 16 2009, 02:02AM
Yeah, those guys are really annoying. It's like they use a rotating list of everyone on any server, not just FSK. Sooner or later I'm team killed by |$|Mcflurry.... I didn't pull the trigger, I swear!
Mcflurry, Tue Jun 16 2009, 02:02AM
Yeah, those guys are really annoying. It's like they use a rotating list of everyone on any server, not just FSK. Sooner or later I'm team killed by |$|Mcflurry.... I didn't pull the trigger, I swear!
Re: Aim bots and such things
|$|Son, Tue Jun 16 2009, 06:13AM
yesterday at 9 p.m cet more than 1 guy had thad kind of hax.
i told momo that and he was on server, he took the asshat and banned him, he saw the same thing as me, the asshat even took momo name to.
i remember some of this kind of bots in server, and it possibly helps the player with aim to
|$|Son, Tue Jun 16 2009, 06:13AM
yesterday at 9 p.m cet more than 1 guy had thad kind of hax.
i told momo that and he was on server, he took the asshat and banned him, he saw the same thing as me, the asshat even took momo name to.
i remember some of this kind of bots in server, and it possibly helps the player with aim to
Re: Aim bots and such things
BanMe, Tue Jun 16 2009, 01:28PM
Name changers are a pain in the ass. Especially when the wrong person gets kicked :((
BanMe, Tue Jun 16 2009, 01:28PM
Name changers are a pain in the ass. Especially when the wrong person gets kicked :((
Re: Aim bots and such things
Boogie Knight, Tue Jun 16 2009, 06:55PM
To avoid kicking the wrong guy...take note of what YOUR slot number is. Next time he rotates the name hax to your name do a playerlist and get HIS slot number. Then, kick with a little dash of ban.
Boogie Knight, Tue Jun 16 2009, 06:55PM
To avoid kicking the wrong guy...take note of what YOUR slot number is. Next time he rotates the name hax to your name do a playerlist and get HIS slot number. Then, kick with a little dash of ban.
Re: Aim bots and such things
Littlefoot, Wed Jun 17 2009, 08:21PM
Doesn't sound like a hack to me, sounds like a script...sucks either way!!!!
Littlefoot, Wed Jun 17 2009, 08:21PM
Doesn't sound like a hack to me, sounds like a script...sucks either way!!!!
Re: Aim bots and such things
Deviant-x, Wed Jul 01 2009, 04:59PM
How do i upload a demo of a guy that cheats on superman server?
Deviant-x, Wed Jul 01 2009, 04:59PM
How do i upload a demo of a guy that cheats on superman server?
Re: Aim bots and such things
mindriot, Wed Jul 01 2009, 05:34PM
zip the .dm_68 file(s). go to this thread, post a reply, and attach the .zip file to your post.
mindriot, Wed Jul 01 2009, 05:34PM
Deviant-x
How do i upload a demo of a guy that cheats on superman server?
zip the .dm_68 file(s). go to this thread, post a reply, and attach the .zip file to your post.
Re: Aim bots and such things
[ASJ]Tapper, Mon Feb 21 2011, 02:36PM
Player JWEST found playing with AIMBOT 2/21/11 @ 3:00-3:30 EST
]jwest_fsk405urbanterror51superman.dm_68[/file]
[ASJ]Tapper, Mon Feb 21 2011, 02:36PM
Player JWEST found playing with AIMBOT 2/21/11 @ 3:00-3:30 EST
]jwest_fsk405urbanterror51superman.dm_68[/file]
Re: Aim bots and such things
deleted-user, Mon Feb 21 2011, 03:06PM
deleted-user, Mon Feb 21 2011, 03:06PM
Thanks for the watchful eye, Tapper. The correct thread for demos is here: http://fsk405.com/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?38281.930Tapper]
[ASJ
Player JWEST found playing with AIMBOT 2/21/11 @ 3:00-3:30 EST
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