MadMan...I understand your reasoning and actually spent some time today contemplating this very subject. As I was driving home from work I was thinking "why do I have such an hatred for people who choose to manipulate the code of the game to give themselves an advantage over other players?" These people are actually quite genius on some level...just need to focus their attention on something more productive. I like to think humans are naturally "good" and "learn" to be "bad". And I think, what if I were a soldier (am an ex-soldier) in an urban environment and I had the electronic means to automatically point my weapon in the direction of the enemy (aimbot) and/or was able to see through walls to know where a potential enemy was hiding? That would give me an advantage which could save my life...in a real life combat situation. And I encourage the young minds full of mush to bring this technology to the forefront of reality....

But I play this game to escape reality and, as such, want it to be as realistic as possible!!!! I don't want anyone looking at me through walls and having their weapon's muzzle head high when I come around the corner with plenty of rounds discharging to take me out and anyone that might have their nose up my butt! That just doesn't appeal to me in a game. And I don't need a wall hack to use while previewing a demo to tell me when one is being used (there are tools built into the game which give you the ability to see through walls during a demo...most veterans of the game know what those tools are and how to use them). So the fact that you are using a wall hack to preview demos leads me to question your purity of gaming. You are on a very slippery slope...the fact that you have a hack installed can easily lead to you using it in a server, if you aren't already. The temptation is too great. You're tired one day, you're getting pwnd and frustrated as a result, let's turn the hax on and turn the tables on our tormentor. Nobody will know, there is no anti-cheat to stop me, it'll only be for a couple of minutes, until I get my frustration under control...it's like a drug man, once you go down that road there is no going back, until you either burn out or die!!!

As far as the definition of Asshat: I'm reminded of an episode of "That 70's Show", Red tells Eric he's going to turn his ass into a hat. I think, by that analogy, an asshat can be defined as an asshole since it would be the hole that slips over your head to form a hat :)

But seriously, cheaters cheat because they have low self esteem and cheating gives them a sense of false superiority thereby temporarily boosting their self esteem...until the "high" from the rush wears off. Then they have to do it all over again...see what I mean about being like a drug? So setting up a server which caters to a bunch whiny cry babies that have to cheat to make themselves feel better....pffffft, I don't think so, Tim.

Hay Littlefoot I can assure you that I have no interest on using any type of bot on line. I’ve been playing on-line since the days of Q2 and I’ve had my ups and downs and I know that if I had a crappy round that situation can change in the next. To me its just a game of distraction and not a life style where winning is job one.

As for the bot being installed it is only installed IF you hook it in before you load in the main program and I’ve only used it against bots to see how they operate. You can watch all the demos you wish but it just does not replace hands on with the code.

As you said there is a kind of brilliance to how the code works and one of the things I’m looking into is to see if I can trap the code stream and see if there is anything useful. Obviously it’s been done.

B-Ver I don’t think I missed the point but do think that we are talking two separate approaches to the same idea.

Your suggesting that no one should give it a go because of probability rather I say why not since it something that has never been done before.

You are relating to a practical approach that involves risk by those that have much more to loss than someone playing around with in a digital world that are more likely bored and willing to try something different or unusual. Such a server would be attractive for no other reason than there is nothing to loss. It’s a button that has to be pushed just to see what happens and one can always rely on the mob mentality.

I mean honestly its not like the aim bot or the wall hack is something new and has been around since Q2 and the same things about the situation then are the same things being talked about today base on assumptions on why someone feels the need to cheat in a digital world in the first place. The only real difference is people now a day seems to accept their involvement as part of the game as an element.

We are still assuming that they do so based on more common real world examples, as that is all we have to relate to yet I’ve yet to see a proper study done that explains why someone who is an outstanding citizen in the real world would cheat on line even in the world of Second Life.

That being said my obsession is not with catching the hacker but rather understanding the code. What you see is the result of digitally manipulated numbers with in a construct and one of the questions I’m asking myself does the code generate a repeating pattern similar to a fingerprint that repeats its self each time a command is executed. I’m trying to figure out the Matrix and not why someone would cheat.

For example if an aim bot is toggled on and off it will still need to be turned on to acquire the target, hold, fire, and then release. If we are looking at this from a graph mathematical standpoint that sequence would show up as a unique fingerprint the first time it is used. If used a second time the figure print would be almost identical in nature which is not imposable but improbable. Used a third time with out any variations then it’s a bot.

This fact can only be proven out by comparing it to a know test benchmark such as the data from a Black Hat server and if the pattern matches through thousands of variations as compared to the fingerprint of a skilled player, which should have a randomness to the bot print, then even the “most” skilled cheat can be spotted as the data is more accurate than the eye could ever be.

What you see is not the same way the computer sees things. At 1/100 of a frame you can not see the a variation in time that on the surface may look different but in terms of recorded, and graphed data, based on the millisecond the software can spot a process occurring very easily.

This is not a “delusion of having fought the hackers” but rather a practical approach to solving a problem, is it?, using science with in an environment where such a solution to a problem can also have other practical applications. As an ex-programmer I’m just surprised after all these years someone else has not picked up the challenge.

In my minds eye they are just another element of the game and I simple would like to go after them for the same reasons I would go after another player while carrying an 8. ;) It’s my Kung Fu against theirs.

As for the client handling the anti-cheat its already been done and does not work worth a dam. This was what Punk Buster was suppose to do but it never made any sense to me how something that is to be secured and guarded was giveen to the very people who now had the means to figure out how to work around it. It’s so worthless I have yet to see anyone on the Q3 server side of things still using it except for a handful of servers.

In the end though I just find it an interesting subject and 6 or so years ago if one even mentioned “bot” they would be shaked and baked. Sorry for going on but after all this is the rant section. :)

I would say this wouldn't be a bad idea... although the hacker turn out might be low, you can at least get their IP and ban them from other servers, like for example: I have the 'Black Hat' server and a 'normal' server running, I see a hacker at 'Black Hat' server, I would get his IP and since I wouldn't want him in my 'normal' server, I would IP ban him from the 'normal' so if he came behind the admin's back, he wouldn't be able to join the server an ruin the fun. So it's like, once you are caught in any 'Black Hat' server you're banned. Sort of like UAA, but this time it's not part the Chain, although I think it should be.

The 'Black Hat' server could just be a trap server I would say.

Like b-ver said, there are different meanings of hacking, we just need to cancel out everything so it's just for what Players think shouldn't be allowed in-game.
Like:

-Aim botting
-Wall hacking

Those are the only two that I think is considered 'cheating' in Urban Terror.


Just a thought.

If your only interest is to review the data of hacks in use.. dedicate a machine or partition to it, create your own network situation, and then conduct your tests. But, you must have the background/knowledge for any of that to make a difference.

So, say you now have your info. You have collected every single known hack for UrT, employed them in various ways, and you have data and the knowledge and ability to code up a manner of "catching" any hacker, regardless of method of use. Even the most ingenious hack user will need to utilize basic methods, as you stated: turn it on, turn it off, utilize what the hack offers as benefit. And you produce a "net" with which to catch the butterflies. To send them tot he cornfield.

Fast forward a month. Peabody Wetmore III has Daddy's sympathy for Mommy's neglect, and has spent HIS time getting back at all the douchebag frackers in the world that have destroyed his happy place, and now you come along and try to prevent his malice from being spread through the use of hacks. And now a counter-measure to your counter-measure is out there.

Ahhh! Time to download all the hacks, try the new counter-counter-measures along with them, and create a new Borg-like technology that will produce variations.. randomizing things just enough that liitle Master Wetmore's efforts are for naught!

Peabody is quite pissed now. Now you have done it.

Oh, pfft. It isn't worth it...

If you can figure out a way to "proof" player's as they join, and while playing, and in such a way that it does not alter the game's experience one iota.. well.. WOW. It would be nothing short of miraculous. Please do not get me wrong- I am not saying it cannot be done. I am saying it is improbable that someone will come up with something that is foolproof.

It can be reduced. I find that less improbable. I think it unlikely that anything will prevent the truly skilled user of hacks. Someone who incorporates the radar hack for instance... difficult to point an assured finger. There are telltale signs.. dead giveaways. But, it is subjective at best!

Like I said.. it would have to be something that identifies ANY variation in the collective code ON the END USER's computer. Anything else is a temporary measure at best.

I admire the zeal! I would love to see you succeed. But please- do not EVER use a hack on your actual online gaming machine. Even unused, it is WRONG, period. It is like holding a stolen kidney, even if you do not intend to sell or use it yourself.

i say do it run a bot sting log ips and names and ban them all

@Trancer:
Those are just two of many.
A hack is any piece of ancillary code, whether as a replacement, or outright replacement of the actual code, with intent to provide advantage that would not be possible without "legal," existing code. An exploit is identifying a manner in which the existing code can be manipulated through the .cfg (supposedly against the intentions of the people who coded the app), or some manner of altering the hardware (such as painting a dot on the monitor screen and using an SR8 no-scoped). Hacks are "illegal" and heinous. Exploits are.. many things ;) Some are hilarious, some annoying, and some are agreeably not to be utilized (dishonorable).

Aimbot. Radar. Mombot. Variable hit. Even if I were to list the hacks I have been made aware of, there would be a longer list in the future. There will be refined versions of them. Anything to afford the user of such hacks with an ability to elude and outperform. Not getting caught seems to be as much a part fo the hacking experience now as simply using a damn hack. The game is given a new dimension to these people. Becoming adept at jumping, shooting.. bettering tactics and strategies, singularly and with a team.. these all become bland and passe, and now the true test of ability becomes being able to infiltrate and maintain a disguise of fair play. Of course, the urge to top the pack will eventually take them over. These are weak people. And being top of the pack garners attention.

When checkers is boring and chess too much of a challenge; when the simple act of enjoying the game, win or lose on a fair table, is lost.. Unfortunately, it drives some of us away. Some of us do not care about #1, but rather the simple joy and thrill; the social "oneness." Of not being alone. Of helping others, whether it is accompanying them with a flag, or being there when they need a shoulder to cry on.

The hacker is a weak, lonely, sad person. No game they play is ever won. The lowest scoring, "Wooden Spoon" awarded player is still a better player; not in rating, but in stature, and is likely to have more willing friends at his/her side.

First using a honey pot for anything else than gathering data is a bad idea simply because the word will get out and you will loss access to a means to monitor behavior. The ability to monitor behavior is something that has never been tried in a formal way and is more important than using it to ban players.

I hate to be the one to bring it up but banning is not really a means of preventing someone from simply renewing their IP and it’s also not that difficult to spoof an IP address. Besides I don’t think the cheater really cares if they get banned one way or another.

As for what is and what is not a cheat I would say in my opinion anything that comes stock in the box is in general acceptable. As long as everyone at any given time has the same advantages as others who are playing the game then it is really up to the individual to learn how to take advantage of the environment with in the confines of the game design.

On the other hand “bolting” on additional features is an outright circumvention of the software design and I would consider an addition instead of a practical use of the application, scripting included, to be an out right cheat.

After that it is at the grace and rules of the server operator that one needs to abide by and the rules of that community. If the operator decides that spawn killing or camping is acceptable, adapted, then that’s their right. The same right also applies if the operator decides that the use of bots are ok and if one is wearing a funny hat will get you banned then so be it. It’s their house and really is the only one qualified to make that decision.

“The hacker is a weak, lonely, sad person. No game they play is ever won. The lowest scoring, "Wooden Spoon" awarded player is still a better player; not in rating, but in stature, and is likely to have more willing friends at his/her side.”

Not to be picky but is this a known fact or an assumption?

I’ve checked out some of the message boards that these so called sad hackers hang out at and they don’t seem to overly sad to me. I’m no expert but I think they actually enjoy cheating for the same reasons we enjoy playing the game straight. Just a though but the next time someone shows up with a bot why not ask them why they feel the need to use one in the first place instead of demoing them and then banning. It would be intresting to see what their response would be.

Just a though but the next time someone shows up with a bot why not ask them why they feel the need to use one in the first place instead of demoing them and then banning. It would be intresting to see what their response would be.

MadMan_X

actually, i have politely asked why. the typical responses are "to pwn you", "your mom's a whore", "go f*ck yourself" or some other ingenious combination of the three. that's like asking a bully why he beats your ass just before he does. 1) power, and 2) because he can.

this is an interesting discussion, but i have lost my curiosity as to why asshats are asshats and hackers are hackers. i just do what i can to keep the superman server clear of them. that's more than enough of a time commitment for me.

I'm sure this is an interesting thread, but once I saw the multiple paragraph posts, I quit reading, lol.

IMO, hacker either hack to piss off and annoy other players, or to try and compete against better players. Therefore, I think they would still go to all of the regular servers to hack, otherwise it defeats the purpose.

And yes, aimbots can be mathmatically calculated. I know for a fact that the formula FIREKILLER uses is, "Shot me once + I die = AIMBOT"

It would be like being in a poker game and the same guy gets a royal flush every time. Everybody knows he's cheating and all the legit players will stop wasting their time playing. What if everyone gets a royal flush every time? Makes the game kinda pointless.