Just a thought but has it ever been tried or even considered to give these guys their own server to play on?

Maybe if they had their own sand box they would stay off of the main servers.

PS I just realized that I posted this in the wrong section. Please can someone move?

A great idea. Not for fsk though. We don't tie in to anything hacker related. But those asshats only have fun if they're ruining our day. They should all be de-nutted.

Well sad to say there will be those who find enjoyment in just being a pest but I think that they are out numbered by those who simply want to play the game their way.

Then again maybe the pests would be more than happy to play with other pests with in their own little box.

Personally I’ve been playing on-line since the Q2 days and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a server set up that allows the use of hacks and aim bots. Understandable that a server like fsk would not want to be associated with such a site but if they have the resources could be the first to try a Black Hat server just to see what would happen.

Who knows maybe other server operators would jump on the bandwagon.

It just seems like any software attempt, PunkBuster was a bust, only motivates someone to try and hack around it and usually is a pain to the straight player.

try putting yourself in a hacker's shoes (not literally). why hack? to have an advantage over other players and/or to piss them off. a dedicated box for hackers would be an equal playing field, which is no fun for a hacker. the minimal effort required to provide a server for such a purpose is not worth it. rewarding their inability to understand the value of a fair game sends the wrong message.

sorry to shoot down your idea. regardless, we're always open to new ideas and strategies to deal with these asshats. :D

Well who really knows what goes through the mind of a hacker and just what defines fair play?

Personally I find them a bunch of interesting individuals and by majority are easy enough to spot.

As for spotting one that’s easy but first off to be clear I do play clean but to spot a hacker you hack the hacker. Watching the demos I will use a wall hack and it becomes apparent real fast if the player is using one as well.

I really don’t have the bandwidth resources but just to see what happens I’m thinking of setting up a honey pot with something like “Black Hat Server Aim bots and hacks welcomed”

Also I don’t know if it’s a technique being used today but the fundamental flaw was trying to take the human evaluation out of the equation. Punk Buster tried to cover as many different footprints as possible that usually had a negative effect on someone with excellent skills.

Hacks have a pattern and what is needed is the ability of the software to notify an admin or ref when such a pattern is occurring. It’s simply improbable or imposable for software to account for human interaction.

To calculate if someone is playing on the same field as everyone else you simply identify probability factors as a percentage which sends up a flag that this is someone that needs to be spec or looked at.

Overall though this is a problem that has been going on for years and trying to solve the problem through software has only been a pain in the asshat for those of use that do play clean and maybe its time to consider trying something that has never been done before.

After all how hard is it to set up a test server?

Sorry for ranting on but these guys are really staring to bug me. WORST yet makes me question the genuine skilled player. Are they or are they not using a hack?

P.S.

What’s an asshat?

Someone who comes over and crouches up and down on your face? :) j/k

dude i dont see anyone paying to be abused by hackers they are on a power trip with no power. its sad really and i wish they would go home and let there daddy beat them some more .but all in good time .

Well who really knows what goes through the mind of a hacker and just what defines fair play?

MadMan_X

Does not matter what goes through their mind. Simple question: What does a person gain by using a hack? Gratification of some kind, period. To err on the side of simplicity and offer hackers a "hacks only paradise" would be unsuccessful. Behavioural studies would show the hacker that would play on such a server to be in a very, very, very small percentage. The label "hacker" is a smaller piece of a larger classification.

Personally I find them a bunch of interesting individuals and by majority are easy enough to spot.

MadMan_X

Just as easy as it is to spot each and every individual in a social gathering (work, train station, bus, school, etc) that will later commit a crime, from sublime to utterly heinous. IOW, good luck. But yes- some are easy to catch, yet others are VERY good at what they do. For some, eluding the great Sherlock Holmes is, or becomes, the primary objective in achieving gratification or release (no, not necessarily sexual in nature).

As for spotting one that’s easy but first off to be clear I do play clean but to spot a hacker you hack the hacker. Watching the demos I will use a wall hack and it becomes apparent real fast if the player is using one as well.

MadMan_X

See above. I could show examples of players that are exceptional at disguising their methods.

I really don’t have the bandwidth resources but just to see what happens I’m thinking of setting up a honey pot with something like “Black Hat Server Aim bots and hacks welcomed”

MadMan_X

The type(s) this would ensnare would be in a minority, and this would also attract a different type of hacker. Gratification is achieved through a different means. Invisible observation in a blind situation with factual filtering afterward would be one of the very few ways of obtaining genuine, usable information.

Did OJ do it? Same thing here. Only OJ (and maybe a few select people) know for sure, 100%. Would you seriously place your life on the betting table on a pure "yes, he did" versus "no, he did not" bet? Seriously? Some hackers are obvious, and for them.. intent or ability will be different than the truly disruptive hacker, and they are typically very easy to spot and be rid of.

Also I don’t know if it’s a technique being used today but the fundamental flaw was trying to take the human evaluation out of the equation. Punk Buster tried to cover as many different footprints as possible that usually had a negative effect on someone with excellent skills.

MadMan_X

An app hack is easy: it is altered code, or added code . Hacking that which polices said code for "purity" is yet another aspect. It is creating a policing mechanism that does not interfere unnecessarily with those NOT utilizing hack code. Changing one's graphics outside of the app to obtain advantage cannot be effectively policed, and as such.. well, is not a hack per se, but rather exploiting the very nature of (digital) interfacing. Paint a dot on your monitor and use an unscoped SR8.. not a hack. And no way to prevent someone from doing so.

Hacks have a pattern and what is needed is the ability of the software to notify an admin or ref when such a pattern is occurring. It’s simply improbable or imposable for software to account for human interaction.

To calculate if someone is playing on the same field as everyone else you simply identify probability factors as a percentage which sends up a flag that this is someone that needs to be spec or looked at.

MadMan_X

Good luck! To associate patterns with hacking is akin to a witch hunt. It implies that no person would be capable of developing certain patterns without code modifications. A talented hacker is capable of avoiding even that type of detection. The only way to catch the most talented hacker is.. patience. 99% of all people who intentionally violate rules/laws will eventually make a mistake that a skilled observer can catch. Yin-Yang.

Overall though this is a problem that has been going on for years and trying to solve the problem through software has only been a pain in the asshat for those of use that do play clean and maybe its time to consider trying something that has never been done before.

After all how hard is it to set up a test server?

Sorry for ranting on but these guys are really staring to bug me. WORST yet makes me question the genuine skilled player. Are they or are they not using a hack?

MadMan_X

Inevitably, and eventually, if one questions this, they must look within and decide just how much they will allow it to interfere with their gaming experience. Try this: Play Scrabble online. Did you lose alot? Yeah, thought so. There are utilities that will have you enter your letters, and then you can try combos of available letters on the board for play. In essence, you are likely to end up playing a computer instead of a person at some point. How often? Who knows.

In addition to hacks, you have exploits. You also have things like the "Dot on monitor for SR8" thing. And a whole bunch of others. Play with full graphics, including shadows? Well, you dont have to.. and I do not. When I play, unless it is a "hard shadow," no one is hiding in them. Exploit? Hack? Nope. I cannot see through smoke, but crouch under eaves and I can see you. Walk into a lightness room, and I cannot see you. It is a setting in the game, and as such, it is my choice- and yours. The playing field is uneven to begin with. Improvise, overcome.. adapt.

"Loose hacks" (the noob type.. flailing about with a negev, mowing each player down with obvious aimbot flicking, etc) are easy to spot, and on a well policed server, short-lived. Stop on the FSK pub during the afternoon-nighttime hours (EST->PST) and you will hardly ever encounter a loose hack that lasts for very long. The hardcore hacker will be difficult to spot, and coincidence/synchronicity will need to be carefully considered, lest ye condemn falsely. "Off woith his head!" "Oh shit.. wow.. I think we erred.. can we attach his head again?" :D lol..

The "in-between" hack is an interesting one. They make mistakes, and get caught over longer periods of observation, and often via exchange of observations (UAA is a GREAT example of this!). Allowing a server to have an admin or admins join invisibly would be an incredible tool. To be able to demo someone without them knowing is the most essential piece that is missing currently (IMO!). THIS would the "human" part fo the equation you spoke of. B3 will help, but "invisible, unknown observation" is what will be the BIGGEST thing we could have. No plans for it that I know of though..

Lastly, attempting to enter the mind of the hacker via hacking oneself.. NOT an answer, period. Using a hack will not enable one to identify a hacker, just as firing a handgun will not allow you to understand anything about "Son of Sam" (for example). Living in a garbage dump does not Charlie Manson you make. It is the underlying mental state of the hacker that provides the means to hack. A hacker that has "seen the light" might be able to offer insight as to their particular brand of hacker, but would NOT be an all-encompassing profile of all hackers.. not even a general portrait, but rather a single person in a rather large family portrait.

Finally, and this is something I am dealing with now, it comes down to how much you let it all affect you. Certain environments can be seen as a bit cleaner, or at least only populated regularly by the most elite of hackers. You wont catch them; someone else will. Can you tolerate that enough to ignore it for the most part and simply enjoy the game? Only you can answer that. It is irritating. But, most times I can tolerate simply because I can hop on teamspeak with other players on the FSK405 Pub (donations SOLELY allow this to exist!!!), and thus it becomes a game,. and a social gathering. A bit adult sometimes during the later hours, but a great gathering of folks. Sunday Scrim takes things to yet another level of care-free gaming, and even more fun socially (IMO).

P.S.

What’s an asshat?

Someone who comes over and crouches up and down on your face? :) j/k

MadMan_X

LOL... a true asshat is someone who just does stuff to irritate and disrupt, or is so clueless, even after having been shown, warned, etc. The eternal noob, whether by choice or lack.

Crouching on the face is known as "teabagging," a derogatory action of insult, typically a friendly insult. Like a dutch oven, vaseline on the toilet seat, etc. Sort of like this...

Wow some interesting stuff.

First the idea of a box to put these hackers into is not so much about giving them a place, then who knows it might work, but rather creating the ability to gather as much data as possible in an environment that you know such action as hacking takes place.

The difficulty of gathering enough data so the “hacker” could be mathematically spotted is difficult because they are a random occurrence and it’s next to imposable to profile them in a short period of time.

A hacker can be profiled as easy as the FBI can profile a serial killer and the software can easily be adapted. Obliviously the FBI is more interested in catching the serial killer than someone who would be interested in taking up the task of actually programming a means of catching a hacker in a video game.

So in general is anyone really interested in taking steps towards catching these guys, for no other reason than it might be fun to do so, or simply to accept it as part of the game?

Personally I’m willing to accept the fact that such occurrences do happen but part of my fun would be to actually catch them in the act and the better they are at hacking the box the more fun I’ll have at catching them. In other words as much as the hacker might find their own gratification I gain a level of my own gratification by catching them. :)

Once again Punk Buster tried to take the human interaction out of the equation but even spotting someone using a spec cheat should not be difficult to profile simply because all hackers have a pattern that is simply imposable to verify unquestionable. This is not to say that boom they are gone but rather to set off an alarm that something needs to be checked out.

Granted this is not going to be a wiz bang solution and on a slow server flags go up fast but in the heat of battle it would be nice for an admin to at least have the software paying attention that says “hay something is not right here”. Over time the software could be tweaked to the point that it could very well spot the hacker quicker than observation or demo recording.

bver. i am always impressed with your point of view and detail. these are very good points.

as for the FBI... they can suck my nuts along with the hackers.

ReSpek mY aUtHoRiTY!!!

I think you missed the main point...

A "hacker" is someone who uses a modified version of the app (code is altered), or an addendum to the app (added code). Not use of exploits, not modification of the gaming machine, etc. The variations of code alterations/additions are over a dozen (and I may be severely under estimating with that number). Some are harder to mask the use of, while others are easy enough to use with a smaller chance of being caught (subtler difference in game play form non-hack) that a complete moron can adequately hide the use of such code alteration/addition.

Take another approach: Open an island where people can come to actively be serial killers. Who would show for such a thing? The ones who would show are already (relatively) easy to catch. Ditto for UrT (or gaming in general) hackers.

Doing what you suggest would merely accomplish one thing: you might gain a nice delusion of having fought the hackers, and thus feel a little more ease while playing elsewhere. Or, it could greatly increase your suspicions, possibly to the point that ANY player that pwns you would be suspect. Coincidence and skill would become a death sentence to all.

Obsessing on this will only be damaging to yourself. Trust me.. I have been down this path, and like a junkie seeing someone who is obviously high, the temptation to return to that path are never ending.

Wanna create an anti-hack? Simple. Provide a method to verify the app itself (first), and then a way to verify additional code pieces are not being employed. And then a way to verify other/alternate pieces are not being deployed AFTER joining. And then a minute later. And so on. And so on. And then a way to be sure that those pieces are not being masked somehow.

Good luck!