Really fishy how he decided to do a complete 90 degree turn and shoot the flag carrier, whom he's never seen while ignoring a blue player who is right in his view... very atypical behavior.

Tranc3r

I could see him pretty clearly. You using 110?

BanMe

Mines @ 100. I stand corrected, thanks for clearing that BanMe.

thanks for the possibility to let me explain my actions

The following is one analysis by a league viewer:

1:13 -- patr0n spawns on red roof.
1:14 -- He faces south and hears footsteps to his right. It cannot be clear whether these footsteps are behind the red shed on the ledge or in the penthouse hallway one floor down. It cannot be clear whether these are friendly footsteps or enemy footsteps because the blue player is out of sight.
1:15 -- patr0n faces north and hears footsteps to his left. This pinpoints that someone is either behind the shed on the ledge or around the hallway one floor down.
1:17 -- The blue player moves east from the south side of the shed but is still not in patr0n's view.
1:18 -- patr0n shoots the corner of the shed wall before the blue player comes into view.
1:19 -- The blue player comes into view, engages patr0n and dies.
1:26 -- patr0n says "don't see my dot correclt."

This is classic wallhack behavior. Shoot first before identifying the location by sight, before identifying the player as enemy or friendly. Explain accidental wall shot as something not related to wallhacking.

theSheilaDivine

You can hear clearly that the enemy is on top of the roof and walking to the corner where I will see him. I aimed on the wall before to be sure where my crosshair is and to "follow" the enemy via sound. It was a simple preshot to the corner (haven't hit it that good but it was close) and the timing wasn't that bad. I am the 150+ ping player, I can shoot through corners. If you play on a server with high ping and low ping players, remember that the hitboxes are different and messed up. In that short demos I've preshoted many times - sometimes with success and sometimes not. Like BanMe said: Why should't I do it if it could help me..

Further analysis by another league viewer:

When it's this tough to tell, I focus on intent. Two standout points on intent:

1) Blue flag carrier comes up front of blue and Devil is behind the wall. Moves to engage at perfect time with a slight tracking of carrier before visual confirmation. Then there is the attack on the blue player shortly after which is weak for wallhack but possible radar. After that makes two completely pointless engagements on the flag and then around the corner red brick. No one is at either location. There was no indication that an enemy would be present. What experienced player wastes ammo like that and gives away his position? The first two are suspicious and the last two are noobish. Put together it reeks of some assist being used and concealed.

2) A short time after, Devil spawns on red roof with a enemy behind the shed. I don't hear anything from the blue player. Devil moves to engage with intent and shoots the wall before enemy is visible.
Devil immediately jerks his aim away from the wall just as the player becomes visible and then reacquires and kills. He then makes a comment that his sights are off. To whom is this comment for? When have the sights in this game ever been off that you line up on a wall and shoot it? This behavior would seem to be extremely rare for an experienced player.

As for the comment on an aimbot, I am also suspicious. If it is used, it is sophisticated and has a weak lock. The end of the demo is the best example. Devil is on Doom roof and engages two enemies on red roof. There is a transition from the left to the right enemy that is odd and seems unnatural - very smooth movement with a strange correction at the end - almost like an arc. Shortly after, he engages a player jumping from doom to pond to doom to red. The last jump - doom to red - seems to have a weak lock mid flight as his aim follows the arc of the enemy pretty damn well. The problem is that the locks are in such short duration that I cannot consider them conclusive.

All said, I believe it's a concealed multi-hack.

theSheilaDivine

no offense - but you need a new headset.

1) You see in this part that my ping is pretty messed up. While playing I am directly on the enemy. When he comes up I kill him and hear the medic of the other one so I kill him as well. Then I heard a footstep but couldn't say from where directly so I set preshots at two corners. It's not noobish, you have to do this in higher divisions.

For comparison BanMe played in the same league with me in division 4 and 6 and does those preshots. I've played in division 1 and 1 the last seasons and will start in 1 again even I've been "inactive" for one season.

@ BanMe: My trigger is pretty sensitive, that's correct

citation BanMe:
"
I’m just going to address two of the comments quick

“When on blue roof shooting up to Red, it's not a stretch to place your crosshairs along the leading edge of red roof. What is tough to believe is how accurate and how many hits he gets. I think the aim bot activates only when his xhairs are super close to an enemy for XX milliseconds;”

It’s really not that hard to believe, you just have to take his monitor size into account. There’s no way in hell I could have done that on my old 17in monitor, everyone is just too small. On a larger monitor these shots are some of the easiest to do on the map. I’ve hardly played the last few months and I just jumped on the server and did it.



“What experienced player wastes ammo like that and gives away his position?”

I pre-fire a lot during matches personally, it’s just necessary against the high skill level you go against. If you’re at least “kindasorta” confident someone’s around that corner why the hell not? I don’t really do it on superman because it’s kind of pointless against the average player skill level on the server, but if you are used to doing it when you play other maps I can see why you’d keep doing it out of habit.

The whole shooting the shed and “don't see my dot correclt.” thing, I really don’t know what that’s about. He obviously knows he’s aimed on the wall since he’s doing it to hide his laser dot (maybe that’s what the comment is about?) so shooting doesn’t make sense. If you watch the rest of the demo there are a few accidental single shots at absolutely nothing. He could have been pressing down on his mouse1 with some slight finger pressure to get ready for the shot and pushed too hard. It was two shots, its not like he tried bursting the guy down with ten through a wall. "


2) Like said, you should play with a working headset. You can spot the enemy easily by sound. I wrote this to Crazy Assassin who went to spec a few seconds before. I needed too long to kill that enemy. 15 bullets for only one enemy in short range are too much. Before the demo was recorded I had multiple times problems with killing enemies in the air.
Try this:
- crosshair: small dot - size 10
- crosshairrgb: cg_crosshairRGB "0.498 1 0 1"
Sorry if you wanted to keep it for your own Sally. My brightness ingame is set that I can see on dark maps like uptown or casa perfectly. Superman is just too bright. My config is a league config and not a pub cfg.

Your accuse for aimbot:
/sensitivity 0.98
dpi 1000
I know that many of you guys are high sens players but if you'ld use a lower sensitivity you could aim more accurate.
Just do singleshots and aim

A third analysis by a non-FSK405 regular Superman player. He did not know that patr0n was Devil:

This is clearly an experienced player on this map and in UrT. Evidenced by several mature abilities such as:

Tapping no spamming
Nade cooking and dropping atop Blue
Advanced jump sequence to get to Red roof from exec
Situational awareness (and not, more on this later)
Some curve moves with soft landings

Now here is where I sense trickeration:

Several times there are clear instances of tracking through walls. It's subtle but it's there. I can elaborate further if you'd like
Aiming at entities too far to see with out scope
avoiding team mates from the same distance; somehow focusing on enemies only

In summary, I suspect this is an advanced player who has so finely tweaked his radar, wh, and possibly aim bot that he has avoided detection. Or at best, made it almost impossible to conclude beyond a shadow of a doubt. There are too many bizarre instances where other than typing that are hard to explain (where I think he may be 'scanning'. ) There are some hacks that you can set the FOV or 'range' before they activate. So they only kick in when enemies are within X range. I think this explains why he gets so many hits from so far away unscoped. When on blue roof shooting up to Red, it's not a stretch to place your crosshairs along the leading edge of red roof. What is tough to believe is how accurate and how many hits he gets. I think the aim bot activates only when his xhairs are super close to an enemy for XX milliseconds; otherwise he's a just a good shot. Kinda also explains the sr8 misses. The clearest sign is the WH - several places that he clearly tracks through walls.

Wish there were more demos to support my suspicions; I lack 100% conclusive evidence. But if I had to pick one or the other, I would ban on the clearest evidence - the WH.

theSheilaDivine

Due to the fact he haven't named proper actions I just have to say that I'm playing on a 24inch monitor and the display resolution is set to 1920x1080.
You can seperate enemies from teammates with minimap, names above the players and ways they are using.
Some of you guys remember me as a great sr8 player. I was used to the sr8 because I was the sr8 player in my clans. The last two seasons I've been playing automatic weapons to become more experienced with it. My old sensitivity was dpi 600 sensitivity 18.
It's just way harder to "snapp" with the sr8 so I'm missing a few shots as well. My Sr8-crosshair is a dot as well in green color. I have the same problems with aiming like with the automatic weapons.

A fourth analysis by a league viewer:

There is a very obvious point in this demo when Blue flag carrier is going from Garage to blue roof and Devil is flying up from blue front arrow. He shoots at the flag carrier coming up from garage through the building. at no point did he view his travel path. He hones in on the shot with what 100% seems to me to be a clear wallhack. He has a keen sense for player position.

theSheilaDivine

If you watch it with r_shownormals 1 you would see that I wasn't even at the enemy when I've shot. I just failed the correct aiming due to the low sensitvity and hoped I'ld get him while spraying in this direction. Also use fov 110 and you see him early. I guessed that the flagcarrier wanted to reach his flag because I thought we are playing ctf so I knew his future way he was using. The sensitivity is made for custom league maps. Superman is much bigger and I have to move the mouse really really fast.

A fifth analysis by a league viewer:

I watched this a dozen times at least, because I wanted certainty.

1) Early in demo, blue roof after killing red FC on smoke stack building: Blue guy on other side of building gave no precise tells of being there (As I reloaded, bandaged, stepped, I could hear ledge grab, one step, one breath), yet cross-hair prepared and take down. Shots following are pure BS rabbit trail shots to mislead specs
2) Red roof after spawn: This seems to be pure BS. I cannot seem to find anything that tells me the enemy is where the cross-hairs are pointing, and prefire? and then to attempt to justify it with game chat.
3) There are far too many fishy points for me. I had a [non-FSK405, Superman Regular] watch this, because he has keen hearing and vision. He mentioned the red-roof moment that the player makes some footstep sounds that are clear, but not enough to lead you directly to player position.

#2 is coup de gras. I'm inclined to call cheat on this demo.

theSheilaDivine

1) those are called preshots for the incoming enemy. Like said above I wasn't able to hear his position due to reloading and medicing but I've heard him.

2) I explained it above as well. You are able to hear the enemy nearly perfectly that I know when he will show up.
3) There are enough sounds - I guess you need a new headset as well.



I hope I could help you with the explanations. My brother let me on his computer at home so I've been able to review that demo. Even with a shitty headset ( Thermaltake Tt-eSports Shock ) I was able to hear nearly everything I've heard ingame.
I just see one problem:
- I am a highpinger
- some of you forgot to review the demo with headset or have a really shitty headset.
- some of you are playing with a low field of view
- some of you have never played in a high division or it was years ago and don't know what a preshot is for
- If you don't believe me the aiming issues try it on the crosshairrgb above with small dor at size ten
- cl_drawclock 1 for spawning enemies

I don't want to attack anybody with this post and I don't want to say you are doing a bad job. I just think that some are using the wrong config for reviewing a demo and aren't using a headset.

Use the settings i gaved you in this post and you'll see that aiming that accurate is easy as hell if you are used to.
Since regular players like BanMe, MrTinker, CD, ... , aren't playing on the server anymore or not that often the server went nearly to a "noob only" server so if you see experienced players you'll be surprised maybe.
If you've watched the demo with my settings and a headset you'll see that all suspicous adctions can be explained there.
Dankrider: "Is this true are willing to confess to trying a hack?" I said I'm not cheating and tried to explain you guys how I acted how, when.

Months ago I've pm'ed BoogieKnight that I can help him with reviewing unclear demos because I'm really experienced in reviewing demos. I've got the correct settings as well.

If you have other questions, just ask.
Soz for the shitty english

cheers
DeviL

Please note devil is from Germany and his English may be interpreted. Try to focus on the facts.

Like I said before:
"I don't want to attack anybody with this post and I don't want to say you are doing a bad job."
and
"Soz for the shitty english"
and
"I'm not cheating"

So let me understand:

You acknowledge that you said "Don't see my dot correct" because you knew Crazy was demoing you?

Are you also saying you knew when the player behind the shed was going to step out because of the footsteps? The original analysis on this thread already noticed the noise.

But how did you know it was a blue player? Why couldn't it have been a red player? You prefire in timing with the movement of the blue player when he is out of sight and as he moves into view. You cannot know this person is blue. Shownormals demonstrates this:

I see that you're still not using my crosshairrgb and my crosshair.

"But how did you know it was a blue player? Why couldn't it have been a red player? You prefire in timing with the movemnt of the blue player when he is out of sight and as he moves into view. Shownormals demonstrates this:"

Why I know it isn't a friend? minimap - Check your screenshots - there is no friend next to me.

"Are you also saying you knew when the player behind the shed was going to step out because of the footsteps? The original analysis on this thread already noticed the noise."

You can locate the enemy nearly pefectly by sound. The shownormals only show that the preshot was too early - if I could have seen him I would have shot a few moments later.
Actually the preshot wasn't helping me because I haven't shot when he appears, I've shot a few moments before. I can't say when he will appear I just can say where he is quietly accurate. Then I have to guess if he will appear or not. I decided to shoot. It's not "noise" that you can't locate - those steps were loud foodsteps that "showed by listening" where the players is.

I'll post a video on sunday of a known german high division player where he shows that he is able to follow players throught walls via sound through half of maps like casa. You can here nearly everything everywhere on Urban Terror.

Are you guys playing without headsets?

"You acknowledge that you said "Don't see my dot correct" because you knew Crazy was demoing you?"

I remember him or somebody else accusing me a few mins or seconds before, then he went spec. I was pretty sure he is watching me so i thought it is friendly to talk to him when he is watching me. Crazy A demoes me everytime if I'm ingame or he likes joining spec for fun when I appear.

To clarify, your eyes were watching the minimap and your ears told you when and where to shoot?

You always should have an eye on the minimap for grenades, preshots, binds, etc
And ofcourse you have to listen to noise that enemies are doing.
That's what you have to do if you want to play in high divisions.

You can put the minimap in the middle of the display, so it's next to your crosshair. If the minimap is too far away from your crosshair, this would help you.

don't we all look at the minimap.. ? especially when it's not chaotic.. looks like there were only a few players on the server.. you can hear everything.. and see your players on the minimap..

downloading urt now..